48RE + Exhaust Brake: Current Status

[Carlton Bale]

The only hardware change that has occurred for brake compatibility is the #5 thrust washer; that took place in mid-to-late 2004. 5 model year.

 

[asptsman]

Asptsman

Sooo, Carlton. For those of us that went ahead and installed the Brake on a 2004. 5 48E (in my case with my dealers agreement to back the warranty) what are our chances of failure? I tow 11,000#s and only use the brake sparingly on long downhill grades. I use no after market lockup device (maybe I should?). I'm changing my transmission oil every 20,000K. So far no problems and good preformance from the brake.

Anything else that I should do to try to stave off failure? Trying not to be on the side of the road!!!







2004. 5 Red 2500, 48E, jacobs brake, guages pillar mount, all dodge goodies, towing a 2955 Montana.

 

[asptsman]

Matt,

What "other means" to control lockup are you using? Can you educate me on the options?

Thanks

 

[BGlidewell]

I have an 05 1t dually hauling a 14K trailer with a 48re and 4:10 gears. I installed a PACbrake after being assured by PACbrake and the installer that it would NOT void my warranty. I'd rather not have a runaway and prefer life to a warranty anyway

ATS still does not have a torque controller for the 05 so I'm stuck with only a limited amount of brake HP until that device is released "in the next few weeks":{



If my dealer gives me any lip about my EB for a trans issue, I will pay for an aftermarket trans repair/upgrade and consider my options for my next TV. :-{}

 

[Carlton Bale]

Sooo, Carlton. For those of us that went ahead and installed the Brake on a 2004. 5 48E (in my case with my dealers agreement to back the warranty) what are our chances of failure? I tow 11,000#s and only use the brake sparingly on long downhill grades. I use no after market lockup device (maybe I should?). I'm changing my transmission oil every 20,000K. So far no problems and good performance from the brake.

Anything else that I should do to try to stave off failure? Trying not to be on the side of the road!!!

Because I'm affiliated with Cummins, I can't recommend any procedure outside of warranty or make speculations or claims in this area. I'm sure you understand my constraints. I suggest searching discussion forums and see if anyone has experienced brake-related issues on automatics. I doubt you'll find much. As far as a lockup controller, the engine control module for 2004. 5 sends a lockup signal to the transmission during braking; an external lock-up module would be redundant.

 

[Rick Stewart]

As far as a lockup controller, the engine control module for 2004. 5 sends a lockup signal to the transmission during braking; an external lock-up module would be redundant.

Thanks Carlton,



Having followed the whole discussion, this is news to me. Are you saying a lockup controller (such as the ATS Commander) is redundant because under engine braking the TC is sent a lockup signal? Or is braking from brake pedal application? Are you saying no lockup device is necessary on the 04. 5's?



Also, is there a date available yet for when the new thrust washer went in on the 04. 5's? I have a build date of 7/04 so I assume I am OK, but would like to be sure.



Thanks.

 

[Texasrattler]

Do you have a part number for the thrust washer?



Pete

 

[ThomasLawrence]

Okay - I just read through the entire thread... there's lots of vague discussion of the thrust washer, and some reference to Bill K's doom-and-gloom prediction of all 48RE's blowing up, but that's not the part in question here. MY question is, specifically WHICH thrust washer was wearing (front planetary? rear planetary? That hokey-looking three-tabbed washer on the rear clutch retainer?), and specifically what makes the replacement one different (thicker? larger/more oiling passages? different material?)



Does anyone have the specifics on this?



-Tom

 

[Carlton Bale]

Are you saying a lockup controller is redundant because under engine braking the TC is sent a lockup signal? Or is braking from brake pedal application? Are you saying no lockup device is necessary on the 04. 5's?

When the Engine Control Module sends an "activate" signal to the exhaust brake, it sends a lockup signal to the transmission. This is primarily based on foot pedal position (released / idle position). Please note, just because lock-up is attempted doesn't mean it is actually achieved, which is why so much development was put into the MY2006 software. This is true for any software or external box that does not have the protection and monitoring feature of the MY2006 engine. MY03. 5 software had some lockup capability, MY04. 5 improved upon MY03. 5, but neither meets the requirements for warranty approval and neither are factory-approved. Exhaust brake control by the ECM was disabled for MY2005 automatics.

Also, is there a date available yet for when the new thrust washer went in on the 04. 5's? I have a build date of 7/04 so I assume

I was never able to get an official switch date. Mid-March 2004 was when the change happened at the transmission factory. Some where around late April or early May is probably when the trucks started getting the new thrust washer version.

 

[Carlton Bale]

MY question is, specifically WHICH thrust washer was wearing and specifically what makes the replacement one different?

I'm not an expert on this but I believe it is the #5 thrust washer, which is on the back side of an outer ring gear in a planetary gear set. It is only significantly loaded when the engine is producing high braking torque (which is only with an exhaust brake enabled). The washer was changed by adding a lead coating, which other washers within the transmission already used.

 

[GHood]

I finally have some good news to announce...



For MY04 and MY04. 5, a compatibility issue was identified. These vehicles have a different revision of the Engine Control Module with less memory and the new software simply can't fit...

Do you suppose that a hardware upgrade (additional memory) could be made to the MY04 & MY04. 5 Engine Control Module to enable loading the updated exhaust brake code? If so, perhaps there's hope for some current owners.



I realize that scenario is likely a pipe dream, based upon all I've read on this thread. It would take some effort on DC's part (translation: $$$$'s) but, it would sure make a lot of folks happy.



Thanks Carlton for all the scoop!

 

[BRayls]

I do not think anyone is going to stick their neck out and give up a date . I have a guy working on that. I think it was around mid june, not saying it was till I find a date for sure. I doubt dc will cover them any how. point being your paying anyhow so if you want do it. now the 06 why not they are dropping the 7/70 so they will only have 3/36 on the trans.

 

[Carlton Bale]

Do you suppose that a hardware upgrade (additional memory) could be made to the MY04 & MY04. 5 Engine Control Module to enable loading the updated exhaust brake code?

If I were to guess, this probably will not happen. The cost of a replacement ECM is probably as much as an exhaust brake kit. I'm guessing there would not be enough people interested in doing this upgrade to justify the hundreds of hours of work required to write, compile, validate, and release the software. I'll bring this up to the powers that be, but I'm pretty sure it will be a tough sell.

 

[Russknh]

If I were to guess, this probably will not happen. The cost of a replacement ECM is probably as much as an exhaust brake kit. I'm guessing there would not be enough people interested in doing this upgrade to justify the hundreds of hours of work required to write, compile, validate, and release the software. I'll bring this up to the powers that be, but I'm pretty sure it will be a tough sell.

Well whats your opinion of the 05's being approved, I would like to buy a dually this year before they screw up the grill design and drop the warranty down to 3/36 but want to be able to run an exhaust brake under warranty--they tricked me once when I bought my 03 cus I was told by my dealer that a brake would be compatible with the "NEW" trans!!

 

[Carlton Bale]

Like I said earlier, the MY05 calibration is pretty far down on the list of software changes because upcoming new products take priority. My feeling is that this time next year would be the earliest. It is more likely that new things would come up and delay that rather than it being moved up sooner in the queue. So, if you want to be sure that you get warranty approval and get it soon, the MY06 is the best bet.

 

[Russknh]

Carlton as we have told you before thanks for all your info even if we don't like it, I have a question for you --can you tell me how well does the ebrake work in the trucks with the 06 tested trans and software?? I had heard at one time the 06 trans was going to have a diferent operation of the tow haul/ lockup button also is this true?/--thanks in advance-Russ

 

[Carlton Bale]

Can you tell me how well does the ebrake work in the trucks with the 06 tested trans and software?? I had heard at one time the 06 trans was going to have a diferent operation of the tow haul/ lockup button. . .

I think the software works very well with the brake. It locks-up the torque converter and turns on the brake exactly when it should and even performs a downshift when appropriate. All you do is move the shift lever down a gear to get it to downshift more aggressively. It's definitely easier than downshifting a manual transmission. As far as I know, the tow/haul mode is the same as MY05. The only difference is that an exhaust brake can be installed and when tow/haul is activated, the downshifts happen sooner. Pressing the tow/haul button during braking caused an immediate 4-3 downshift at all of the highway speeds I tested.

 

[TCDiesel]

I think the software works very well with the brake. It locks-up the torque converter and turns on the brake exactly when it should and even performs a downshift when appropriate. All you do is move the shift lever down a gear to get it to downshift more aggressively. It's definitely easier than downshifting a manual transmission. As far as I know, the tow/haul mode is the same as MY05. The only difference is that an exhaust brake can be installed and when tow/haul is activated, the downshifts happen sooner. Pressing the tow/haul button during braking caused an immediate 4-3 downshift at all of the highway speeds I tested.

4-3 automatic downshift would be a great feature,I hope DC has a New TC ,because the stock one they have now when used commercially won"t support that for long,or they will have the EB so retarded the braking will not be worth the cost.

 

[Carlton Bale]

Actually, we've tested exhaust brake engagement to over 720,000 real world miles and we've tested transmission downshifts during braking to over 1,560,000 real world miles. That's how the Jacobs Exhaust Brake received warranty approval. To limit torque converter load during downshifts (or upshifts), the brake is disengaged until the shift is complete and the torque converter is re-locked. The 4-3 downshift is automatic and happens much earlier in tow/haul mode.

 

[Tomeygun]

thought ya'll would like to see this:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132010

(pic about 9 posts down)



Maybe good to go now on the auto exh. brake?????