LORENZ vs Kore, A REAL WORLD BEATING and the RESULTS

[jtnm]

I have been told before (maybe by Keg, KORE's engineer), that I was a

statistic, and a "bad customer". I'm probably the 1% that actually uses

these suspensions for what it is meant for, & I used them to there fullest

everyday. From what I've read, the guys that are the "statistics", are the

guys that actually use this stuff to it's capacity. Again, like I have

stated before, 200 to 300 miles EVERYDAY of off-road.



Questioning my "hard off road" miles is a mute point. The KORE 2. 5 Race

System couldn't keep up, LORENZ 2. 5 System worked right out of the box.



Jason, you asked why I revalved the LORENZ System... I had gone through and revalved the KORE Systems 3 times before I got it to an acceptable level.

The LORENZ System worked leaps and bounds better out of the box compared to the KORE even after 3 revalves. After talking to Todd at Fox and running his recommended valving, the KORE system still wasn't as good as the LORENZ. After running Fox's recommendations for a while on my KORE kit, I called Sean at LORENZ to get his recommendations. It was this 3rd revalve with Sean on the phone that made the ride acceptable. I sold the KORE System after running this valving for a while and bought the LORENZ System.



Bottom line, I knew what I was doing with valving at this point, and wanted

see if I could fine tune the LORENZ stuff. The Sway-a-Ways are easier to

work on than the FOX's by the way.



Here's the kicker, I just sold the truck back to my dad today. It's now his

work truck going into service tomorrow. I was grinning ear to ear when we took it out back to my favorite jump for the last time an hour ago. On to the LORENZ 2. 25 System with my new truck. Reviews to come as soon as UPS shows up.



jtnm

 

[Jason Hughes]

I have been told before (maybe by Keg, KORE's engineer), that I was a

statistic, and a "bad customer". I'm probably the 1% that actually uses

these suspensions for what it is meant for, & I used them to there fullest

everyday. From what I've read, the guys that are the "statistics", are the

guys that actually use this stuff to it's capacity. Again, like I have

stated before, 200 to 300 miles EVERYDAY of off-road.



Questioning my "hard off road" miles is a mute point. The KORE 2. 5 Race

System couldn't keep up, LORENZ 2. 5 System worked right out of the box.



Jason, you asked why I revalved the LORENZ System... I had gone through and revalved the KORE Systems 3 times before I got it to an acceptable level.

The LORENZ System worked leaps and bounds better out of the box compared to the KORE even after 3 revalves. After talking to Todd at Fox and running his recommended valving, the KORE system still wasn't as good as the LORENZ. After running Fox's recommendations for a while on my KORE kit, I called Sean at LORENZ to get his recommendations. It was this 3rd revalve with Sean on the phone that made the ride acceptable. I sold the KORE System after running this valving for a while and bought the LORENZ System.



Bottom line, I knew what I was doing with valving at this point, and wanted

see if I could fine tune the LORENZ stuff. The Sway-a-Ways are easier to

work on than the FOX's by the way.



Here's the kicker, I just sold the truck back to my dad today. It's now his

work truck going into service tomorrow. I was grinning ear to ear when we took it out back to my favorite jump for the last time an hour ago. On to the LORENZ 2. 25 System with my new truck. Reviews to come as soon as UPS shows up.



jtnm

Not buying into this non-sense. I have installed and sold too many systems without any customer complaints to know better. I hope you are not using these forums for your statistical data either. There are more guys who own these trucks that either don't know or care about what is being said on here than you think. Yes I do my own market research. Again my point is if you had a bad experience, let it be noted and leave it at that. Why do you guys saturate this cool forum with your same negative points over and over. In case you haven't noticed it's only a handful of you guys that can't get it out of your system. Put up a cool video of you going to work on this 300 mile "off-road" highway you take to work or something of that nature.



Sincerely,

Jason

 

[jtnm]

Not buying into this non-sense.



Your right I am lying.

 

[ENafziger]

Hey jtnm!



I value your real life experience, and am looking forward to hearing reviews on the 2. 25" Lorenz system vs. the 2. 5". I'm very likely going to get one of these two systems in the near term, and would like some real-life feedback from someone who works their truck hard. Thanks, Eric

 

[Bob4x4]

It is real life! The happy customer tells a few people the unhappy customer tells everyone he can. I sold my kore to a family member so far I have had to take back the towers and sway bar drop brackets, reseal the front shocks ,Revalve all 4. Such is life... ... ... ... I still post pics having fun too:-laf :-laf



Bob

 

[DPeltonen]

Your right I am lying.

:-{}

Hmmm, I am having a hard time trying to decide who would be telling the truth here.....



Lets see, Jason: A KORE retailer, who sells nothing but KORE, and can only benefit by supporting KORE..... or JTNM: A guy who spent the money, did the work on his own truck, personally experienced the trouble (not only with the equipment, but with KORE customer support) and finally had to go out and reinstall another set up from from Lorenz at his own expense.



When Jason uses things like "selling, installing" and "talking to customers" to demonstrate his vast experience with KORE, he loses credibility. Now, if he said he had similar experience to JTNM (daily hard use), that would be different. As far as customers go, how many really pound the heck out of their suspensions every day? Or do they go to the dunes on an odd weekend and spend the rest of the time detailing and cruising the freeway. Not always maybe, just the ones I know.



To be honest, I think they are both telling the truth. I also think Jason has a very good reason not to want to believe the real truth about JTNM and his experience with KORE. And that would be the almighty $$$$$$$$.

 

[jtnm]

UPS & Postman came by today

Got a few presents when I got home this evening.

 

[Lorenz]

I looked back through your posts DPeltonen.

Those are excellent points to consider before you make a change. I did do some math and gave this change a great deal of consideration. The actual weight increase is just under 3% for the vehicle (please don't ask me to show the differential math regarding the mass/energy of the spinning tires and the weight of the vehicle

Your the geek I strive to be. I thought I was good after figuring a weight delta when loaded as a percent. Or the time I used "delta" instead of "change" on TDR. I felt real cool when my wife borrowed my cell phone and asked why the calculator was on my "hot key". Or the time I pulled into the Cat scales and the cashier knew me by name because I weighed my junk so much. Or the time I figured my spring rates using a spring rate calculator and found that I was running (by trial and error, and huge amounts elbow grease) 1. 046% away from the suggested theoretical rates. So much for working smarter not harder.

Differential math that incorporates the mass of spinning tires is over the top. I wanna be like DPeltonen when I grow up.

Ok, back to the regularly scheduled programing.

 

[MoparBob]

JTNM, how about a few pics of the install as you go along? I would like to hear of how the install goes as well as how it performs. Thanks!

 

[ENafziger]

I agree, pics of the install along the way would be great! JTNM, not trying to rush you or anything, but I'm anxiously waiting on your opinion of the 2. 5 vs. 2. 25 systems before I order. Thanks for giving us your real-life feedback!



Are you going with the mini-packs in the rear, or the full leaf replacements?



Sean, I'll be calling soon! -Eric

 

[kparker]

Bob4X4,



Why would you have had to take back towers and sway bar drop brackets? Did you have a failure on either of those? If so, which I can not believe, why would you not ask for warranty replacement? Those parts are guaranteed for life. I can imagine seals in leaking over time but failure of the aforementioned parts I can not.



D Peltonen,



Jason Hughes has had the opportunity to make money selling Lorenz suspension systems. With his experience he chose not too. He has also put a lot of grueling miles on his truck. It may look nice, but it is neither a big sand truck, or a show vehicle.



ENafziger,



Jason Hughes has excellent install pictures available of both systems.



KP

 

[Lorenz]

Jason Hughes has had the opportunity to make money selling Lorenz suspension systems.

Really?...

 

[Lorenz]

Bob4X4,



Why would you have had to take back towers and sway bar drop brackets? Did you have a failure on either of those? If so, which I can not believe, why would you not ask for warranty replacement? Those parts are guaranteed for life. I can imagine seals in leaking over time but failure of the aforementioned parts I can not.



D Peltonen,



Jason Hughes has had the opportunity to make money selling Lorenz suspension systems. With his experience he chose not too. He has also put a lot of grueling miles on his truck. It may look nice, but it is neither a big sand truck, or a show vehicle.



ENafziger,



Jason Hughes has excellent install pictures available of both systems.



KP

We might be able to address the rest of this in another thread.

 

[Bob4x4]

The KORE towers were much slower to remove and replace for shock resealing. I had the towers that were threaded,so everytime any work needed to be done the spring had to come out. To top it off he saw my strut tower brace and wanted that too. The sway bar end links bent so it was time to drop the blocks and get some links.

Do you want to buy back some really cool Kore towers and spacers?



Bob

 

[lostronin]

It is real life! The happy customer tells a few people the unhappy customer tells everyone he can. I sold my kore to a family member so far I have had to take back the towers and sway bar drop brackets, reseal the front shocks ,Revalve all 4. Such is life... ... ... ... I still post pics having fun too:-laf :-laf



Bob

I don't suppose AK tore up that ol' "built for battle" kore stuff trying to keep up with a Carli equipped truck did he :-laf

 

[Bob4x4]

:-laf :-laf



Bob

 

[FGoodwin]

I don't suppose AK tore up that ol' "built for battle" kore stuff trying to keep up with a Carli equipped truck did he :-laf

Not tore up, just tired of spending three hours in one of my shops pulling apart 3/4 of the front end to reseal the shocks, plus... . there is that strut tower brace that looks oh so sweet:-laf :-laf



Akcamper

 

[kparker]

Lorenz, I stand corrected. I should have written Jason Hughes has had the opportunity making money installing Lorenz suspension systems. To my knowledge he has only installed one, and he definitely lost money on that job. I apologize for my mistake.



As for the rest of what I wrote? I asked Bob4x4 questions about what he posted. He replied. That was appropriate for this thread, right? The other thing I wrote was responding to two people who were just asking for install pictures of a Lorenz suspension system. I happen to know someone who has pictures of exactly what they are asking about, and KORE installs. Being this is a thread titled LORENZ vs KORE, I think that my comments were appropriate for this very thread. What is not appropriate for this thread, is looking up someone's prior non-related posts, then quoting them, and digressing into an off-topic that is meaningless to the thread. How many visits you have made to the scales or your exhaustive use of a calculator really does add nothing to this thread.



Bob4x4, It is true that with the threaded type towers, shock removal was a little more cumbersome. There is however, plenty of room to drill and tap some holes to mount any contraption you find necessary. We have thought of many, but never came up with anything that actually benefited us so we left it alone. Maybe we should consider buying them back. Better yet, being that you got your KORE products at such a deep discount, maybe you should do the right thing and just ship them back to us. Even better, send them to Rebecca Boardman. It was her deceased husband that would have made the extra money had you paid full retail price for the items. Sorry Lorenz, that probably could have been saved for a different thread.



KP

 

[Lorenz]

My last, longer post, was a futile hope at lightening things up to avoid getting this thread locked or deleted.

I'll be the first to move tangent topics, including my own attempt at humor, to a new thread.

 

[ENafziger]

I've been following this closely, as I have been trying to get all the information I can before purchasing a suspension system. I've finally saved the money to do so, and am ready to buy.



A year and a half ago, I wouldn't have considered anything but Kore; however, from what I've seen and heard from multiple sources, I'm glad I didn't have the money back then.



In choosing a system, it seems that three things stand out as most important in my mind. One being the quality of the system, the second being customer support, and the third being reputation/morals/ethics/etc of the company.



I have spent some money with Kore in the past, and, for the most part has been a great experience. I was greatly anticipating the release of the higher lift, technical system that Kore began introducing a year ago. Production must be going a lot slower than planned, because I've made several calls over the past year about this system, and seems the projected release date keeps being stretched and stretched. After waiting for a year on anticipated availability dates, I'm ready to move on and find something else.



As far a suspension quality, I know many are happy with Kore. I also know that many have previously tried Kore, have not been satisfied, and have found other offerings that have worked better for them. I'm not sure what to make of this, but statements like the following are a little confusing to me...

Sean is a great guy and has a great system. But there is no way his 2. 25 system will take the abuse that the Kore Chase system can handle. By the way I have pictures and "real world experience" installing one of his 2. 25 systems. It did not go flawlessly, but I will leave it at that. It is a good street system at best.

As I recall, the Chase system utilizes 2. 0" shocks vs. the 2. 25" SAW from Lorenz. Assuming the IR coils of Lorenz are similar to the VR coils of Kore, and assuming the deaver minipacks are similar in design, the main differences between these kits seems to be the shocks themselves, and the shock towers.



I know the Chase system used to include aluminum shock towers, but it seems that they are now utilizing the OEM instead. The Lorenz kit comes with steel towers, that, along with the SAW shock allows for more travel.



Additionally, I believe I read that a 2. 25" shock has 21% more piston area and more oil compared to 2. 0" shock. I'm confused as to why Jason would say that the Lorenz 2. 25 kit could not keep up with the Chase kit, which uses smaller shocks.



Furthermore, how could the Chase kit live up to the claim, "All weather, all terrain. The CHASE SERIES uses the same high-performance VR coils and mini leaf packs as the RACE SERIES and incorporates a shock that has been specially-engineered to fight any abuse you can dish out. " (straight from the Kore's website). And yet Jason affirms that the more robust Lorenz kit is a good street system at best? I'm missing something here...



Finally, putting quality/claims/etc aside, it appears that JTNM made repeated attempts to get some help with his Kore Race system. This would understandably be very frustrating to spend $3,500+ and not have a kit that performed as claimed... but then not be able to get any customer support after the purchase is quite disturbing.



On the contrary, I have read of numberous occasions of Bob and Sean going above and beyond to help people out... even people who were not "their customers". This says a lot to me.



I am looking forward with much anticipation to JTNM's experience. A true, unbiased, real-life comparison between Kore, Lorenz 2. 5 and Lorenz 2. 25 is exactly what I've been waiting on. It's always interesting to get feedback from someone not selling a product...



Jason, can you provide some justification as to why the Lorenz 2. 25 is just a street kit, while the Chase system will "fight any abuse I can dish out"?



Sean, thanks for trying to keep things light and friendly. I'm sure others have had some of the same thoughts and questions that I have about what's being said, and would like to see a productive outcome of this thread. BTW, I like the new website!



--Eric