Bio diesel

[captaindean]

Anybody know if we can run biodiesel in these new trucks without messing up the dpf thanks in advance there us a gas station here were i live that sells it not sure what the price but I would like to run it in the summer winter is way to cold

 

[JFaughn]

Cummins just went from a b5 to b20 [ b5 = 5% , b20=20% ] , not sure witch fuel system is in that new truck , there were some issues with the common rail systems , the high pressure polymerizes the bio [ makes stringy ] .
I've been running bio for over 2 yrs , b10 - b80 , no problem , just stay away from the waste vegi oil or straight vegi oil , there are believers in the WVO/SVO , but the science does not back it up .
Wait for more info [ new truck , fuel system ] .

 

[Tom Schuster]

Anybody know if we can run biodiesel in these new trucks without messing up the dpf

Two tanks full of B5 (I've only had the truck for a month) and the truck is running beautifully. I used nothing but biodiesel in my '99 2500 so I wanted to use it in my new truck, too. I did check first to make sure it was blended with ULSD. As long as the truck keeps running this well I'll keep using it. If we could get B20 I might try that, but it was like pulling teeth to get someone to sell B5 here.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[Dishman Dodge]

We had a customer tow in his 2005 Ram 2500 with 44,000 miles on it. The engine was history. When we talked to STAR they asked what the fuel looked like. When we inspected the fuel we found straight bio-diesel and his warranty was denied. Chrysler makes it very clear in the owners manual you received with your truck what diesel fuel is authorized. If you have any question about it look in the manual. If you run something other than what is authorized you run the risk and could pay the price. Chrysler is getting very good about restricting parts until all the facts are known. It is tempting to try to save money but it could be way more expensive in the long run.

Richard C. Bowman

Customer Service Manager

Dishman Dodge

 

[Dishman Dodge]

Richard Bowman again with a little more info on Bio-diesel.

TSB 14-007-06 REV. A

under PROPER FUEL and FUEL QUALITY:

"A maximum blend of 5% biodiesel (B5) is acceptable as long as the biodiesel mixture meets ASTM specification D-975- grade S-15, and ASTM D6751. A biodiesel fuel blend that is higher than 5% is not acceptable with out additional fuel processing because these higher percentage biodiesel blends contain excess amounts of moisture which exceed the water stripping capability of the on-engine final fuel filter. Should a higher percentage biodiesel fuels be used an auxiliary water stripping filter will be required. "

"A maximum blend of 20% biodiesel (B-20) can be used by government, military and commercial fleets who equip their vehicle(s) with an optional water separator, and adhere to the guidelines in the Department of Defense specification A-A-59693 (in addition to: ASTM specification D-975, D-975-grade S-15 and ASTM D6751)".

I will check with Chrysler and see what I can find out about additional water filter strippers available and see what authorization is needed to keep warranties in affect. More later.

Richard C. Bowman

Customer Service Manager

Dishman Dodge

 

[SHobbs]

I am curious what happened to the engine. Was the bio to blame? Was he running homebrew, or refined bio? The bio I run is refined and meets the same ASTM specs as #2 and for the last 5 years and over 100k of B20 in the winter and B100 in the summer I have had no issues well except for a little gelling once. Additional water stripping, thats funny I get less water out of the bio I run than I did with #2. Would be nice to get some standards that all bio refiners could go by to get the quality where it should be.

 

[JimB1]

Bio-diesel is a industry patented trade name. Any refiners must meet a standard of closely monitored ASTM specs in order to put the trade name Bio-diesel on their product. I run mostly mostly B-99 don't drain filter often. Couple teaspoons max of water when entirely draining fuel filter and doing 100% capture of everything just to know for sure what was there.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

The problem with biodiesel is the quality varies dramatically. Some of it's great stuff, often times it's junk. Knowing this it's understandable Chrysler limits the content to 5%.

 

[Dishman Dodge]

The problem with biodiesel is the quality varies dramatically. Some of it's great stuff, often times it's junk. Knowing this it's understandable Chrysler limits the content to 5%.

Richard Bowman again. I spoke with the Chrysler DOM today and asked him about the additional filter required to run B20. He said "Only government, military and big fleet accts" can run the extra filter with B20. So guys and gals 5% max is all that is allowed unless you fall into one of the three catagories above. As for the so called biodiesel in the engine I told you about. It appears to be, and smells like deep frier oil. Vaughn you are very right about the differences in so called biodiesel. You really have to be careful what you buy.

Happy motoring

Richard

 

[HighRanger]

Damn can only fun B5 but you can run up to 50 % kerosene and be ok per my owners manual. Funny.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Posts like Dishman's **** me off. A lot more info is needed before you can blame the bio... or at least a lot more info needs to be given. I've run a lot of bio in very high concentrations and it's not an issue. Maybe in that particlar case it was, but you can't bash the bio w/o telling us what the problem was.

 

[JFaughn]

I've been using bio for over 2 1/2 yrs , I have friends that build the plants ,
I do not like give out too much info , to avoid getting them in trouble when I repeat some of what they tell me .
I'm also a little bummed about the use of the word , often , the truth is that it does happen that a bunch of processors do a bad job , for a number of reasons , last I saw [ 84 plants operating in US , with about 85 more being built ] as it becomes general knowledge that such en such plant is putting out bad product , they are changing there ways , and or closing , ect .
But the hole concept is much like Thomas Jefferson & other founders intended , many individuals competing for our dollar , just need to , buyer be wear , do what you can to find out where & who the product comes from , big buis has evolved us away from these concepts , so we need to learn them over .
Now that I think of it , having as pocket size test kit , I have to see whats available .
It would be good to have a web site based consumer , information / quality center , so something like me making more detailed info , and not getting back to who gave the info .
I've got my bio from 2 different commercial processors , not from a retail pump [ who knows ] when the products we consume a more direct from the producer , the easier it is to take what ever action is necessary , if there are issues , short version , decentralization .
Maybe this should be in a political vs bio , but its really the same .
Rant over.

 

[Wolfy]

Posts like Dishman's **** me off. A lot more info is needed before you can blame the bio... or at least a lot more info needs to be given. I've run a lot of bio in very high concentrations and it's not an issue. Maybe in that particlar case it was, but you can't bash the bio w/o telling us what the problem was.

Cowtoter, you need to do a self-check before you "dis" the posts from the Dishman personnel, whom I believe are honestly trying to share what relevant info they can get for us.



They are appropriately referring to bio use in the 6. 7L engine with the new emissions system components. ("Appropriately" because this forum is supposedly devoted to discussion of these rigs,. . check the forum title. )



What has-worked/does-work in your rig, as described in your signature, proves nothing about what will work in these new rigs.



What should "****" you off is realizing that you have claimed great experience with an orange in a discussion about apples.



A Cummins diesel is not necessarily a Cummins diesel.



It is interesting to me when someone assumes superior technical knowledge to that of Cummins engineers, who have given us some engines with a great reputation earned over many years.



Those engineers say "limited"-bio,... you say "very high concentrations" "not an issue" (and you say it apparently without understanding that the engines under discussion are different from the one you have).



A person choosing how to fuel his new $50,000 truck would be well advised to consider carefully whose advice to take.

 

[PRout]

It bothers me that you cant run biodiesel in a new $50k truck, especially when bio is so much cleaner and overall better for many reasons (other than usage in cold climates - which is being addressed). That just doesnt make sense especially when so far most of the problems with the new engines have been related to the epa equipment itself. .

I mean, I feel that an older truck like a 1st or 2nd gen (like mine) that is properly tuned should be running pretty clean just by running B99. I can just imagine how clean one of the new ones could be with the newer software controlled injection running bio fuel.

Yes I know there alot of reasons like the majority of fuel available right now is not bio, and b5 is not really bio anyways since 95% is petroleum based. But IMO you SHOULD be able to run a significant blend of bio in an EPA optimised diesel.

 

[Wolfy]

It bothers me that you cant run biodiesel in a new $50k truck, especially when bio is so much cleaner and overall better for many reasons (other than usage in cold climates - which is being addressed). That just doesnt make sense especially when so far most of the problems with the new engines have been related to the epa equipment itself. .



I mean, I feel that an older truck like a 1st or 2nd gen (like mine) that is properly tuned should be running pretty clean just by running B99. I can just imagine how clean one of the new ones could be with the newer software controlled injection running bio fuel.



Yes I know there alot of reasons like the majority of fuel available right now is not bio, and b5 is not really bio anyways since 95% is petroleum based. But IMO you SHOULD be able to run a significant blend of bio in an EPA optimised diesel.

PRout,



I agree that is seems reasonable that we "should" be able to, ... and it bothers me, too, that we "can't" run higher % bio in these new 6. 7L rigs.



But I think when it comes to passing on valid info in these forums, we have to be careful to separate what we "wish" was so, from what the engineers who build the thing tell us IS so. A warranty-busting mistake could be very costly.



There is certainly market/social pressure to adapt these engines to better multi-fuel usage, ... so we have to hope the engineers will respond.



Untill/unless they do, IMO 5% is not enough of a savings to bother with, and greater % could get you into expensive trouble.



I'm listening for counter-arguments and new developments, though.

 

[dlmetzger]

While there is an ASTM standard for bio-diesel, not everyone is adhering to it. Bio-diesel production is not a mature industry. This variability in the product scares the manufacturers. It could cause damage to an engine through no fault of the manufacturer and they choose not to cover an engine if it exceeds there guidelines. That doesn't mean that bio-diesel will damage an engine.



I think the idea behind bio-diesel is a sound concept (recent biological organisms remove CO2 from the air,use H2O and energy from the sun to make hydro-carbons, as opposed to the dino variety). This is a renewable energy source. However, using soil crops to create bio-diesel is not sound. There is not enough arable land to produce enough bio-diesel to replace fossil-diesel. The other current source is from animal fat and that also could not replace fossil-diesel.



There is another source, bio-diesel produced from algae (maybe even pond scum). Some organisms have a 50% oil content and a two week life cycle. Bio-diesel from this source could make a serious dent is our fossil fuel usage.



Dan

 

[JimB1]

National Biodiesel Board - www.biodiesel.org - www.nbb.org is the National Bio-diesel Board, a national trade association that in conjunction with major goverment entites and ASTM (American Society of Testing and Materials) developed standard ASTM 6751 which registered the "Bio-diesel" product name with the EPA. Other producers/refiners of bio-fuel for sale which they wish to call Bio-diesel must conduct rigorous testing on their own to satisfy goverment entities and the ASTM, OR adhere to the nationaly recognized standards of ASTM 6751 and do so under the umbrella of National Bio-diesel Board (NBB) All this is fast becomming the Gold Standard in a growth industry. Bad actors of commercial bio-fuel sales have nowhere to hide. Game over. Home brew private use bio-fuel is small 'taters and a seperate use category. After lots of reading on NBB's site and other places, I'm believing B99 in my '06 & '07 5. 9's already meet 2010 standards. I exclusively buy at the refiners pump, Seaport Petroleum here in Seattle and when out on the road any well traveled commercial pumps advertising "Bio-diesel" are acceptable to me.

 

[FHerman]

Do you or anyone else have written science reports on what WVO or SVO does to any CTD?

 

[FHerman]

Do you or anyone else have written science reports on what WVO or SVO does to any CTD?

 

[lpermann]

Your question about using bio without messing up your engine is a very valid question. All I can suggest is that you ask the biodiesel supplier if the fuel meets the ASTM standard. If you get anything besides a direct affirmative answer I would consider not using the fuel. The ASTM test is an expensive test to perform, and the supplier may not be truthful with his response. I would assume that there should be some control of the sale of bio fuel if it is being sold commercially and that the fuel does meet the ASTM standard. If you can affirm the ASTM standard, the bio fuel should be good for your engine but the cost of the fuel is usually more.