Another CI-4+ oil changing to CJ-4

[Cal Brewin]

I just got back an email reply from Shell after asking if they will be continuing to make CI-4+ Rotella T Synthetic 5w40. Here is their reply:



Tom, we plan on introducing Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4 in October

of this year. At that time we will no longer make the CI-4 Plus version.

Thank you for your interest in Shell products.



Richard Moore

Staff Engineer

Shell Global Solutions (US) Inc.



I also sent a simular email to Mobil, and will post their reply here when I receive it.

 

[BHolm]

So with all of this CJ oil coming on to the market, and a larger sector of informed public not wanting it, what are the chances we might see an aftermarket additive? Something like dumping in a can of STP oil treatment. Is there a market for it? Is it even a do-able thing? I just dont like what I see in these new oils. Sure would be nice if those of us who weren't forced to use CJ oil could bump it up closer to a CI4+ level of protection.

 

[tgordon]

I would be willing to bet that if they saw everybody purchasing the CI-4+ rather than the CJ and they begin to loose market share that might influance the decision to quite making it. Am I saying to go out and buy thousands of gallons and hoard it for the end of time, ah what the heck, at least you will have a good supply of the stuff, and might be able to make some money off it from those of us who didn't:-laf



Troy

 

[BHolm]

I am sure that there are not enough of us in the know over the whole thing to create sufficient market demand to continue CI4 oils. The fact is, the new trucks require CJ oils and the rest of us can use CJ oils even though they do not appear to perform as well. It actually means that they may sell more oil as an end result because drain intervals need to be shortened. I would bet that making more than one line of oil just isn't what they are set up for either. They need to choose CI or CJ, it isn't economical for them to produce both.



That is why I was wondering if there might be something we could add to CJ oil to improve the additive package.

 

[Buffalo]

BHolm,



Your question is a good one. Since there seems to be a market for a product, like this, I imagine some company will try to fill the void.



I wonder if there is ONE additive package that would be compatible with ALL CJ-4 formulations? All the different oils have different chemistry's, as I understand.



FWIW, Schaeffer's 9000, 5X40, fully-synthetic is supposed to remain a CI-4+ until around 2010. It's also considered to be a very fine product. I got this information from a phone call to one of Schaeffer's engineers. (The Schaeffer's 7000, 15X40, semi-synthetic, has changed over to the CJ-4 rating. ) I suppose Schaeffer's feels they have all the bases covered by having both ratings.



Hope this helps.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[JHardwick]

I just dont like what I see in these new oils.

What negative things have you been seeing?

 

[JHardwick]

The fact is, the new trucks require CJ oils and the rest of us can use CJ oils even though they do not appear to perform as well.

I've posted my numbers on CJ rated Rotella, and so have a few other members ... ... ... . everything has looked good to me.

 

[BHolm]

I guess I was going on what I have read in TDR. I beleive it was a petroleum engineer who wasn't too impressed with the additive packages in the CJ oils.



What intervals have you been changing CJ at? Seems like the CI4+ oils were holding up very well after 10k miles even with stock filtration. Do you find similar results with the CJs?

 

[JHardwick]

What intervals have you been changing CJ at? Seems like the CI4+ oils were holding up very well after 10k miles even with stock filtration. Do you find similar results with the CJs?

I was running CI4+ Rotella 15-20K with no filter changes or makeup oil.



My first CJ4 sample was sent in with 14,575 miles, again, no filter changes or makeup oil.



This next sample will have over 25K miles on it with 2 filter changes and 3 quarts of makeup oil. I'll be dumping it and sending a sample in this week.

 

[BHolm]

Well cool, I'll just stop worrying about it, and stick to my 10k intervals

 

[JHardwick]

Yup, from what I've seen, it's a lot of hype and the natural tendency for people to avoid change.

 

[Buffalo]

JHardwick,



Thank You for posting your UOA results, again. I believe member Steved got a good UOA with about 10,000 miles on the oil (Rotella, also. )



I really hope that these good reports aren't an anomoly & that they can be reproduced, regularly.



As you know, there is quite a bit of talk and suggestion that these new CJ-4 oils aren't as robust as the older CI-4+. Since we all are fans of the Cummins engine, we want the best for them.



I appreciate the fact that you guys are willing to do the extended oil drain intervals, testing & posting your results. This is the only way we will REALLY know that the new oils are as good as the manufacturers say that they are.



Thank you, again.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[JHardwick]

I never really wanted to go above 20,000 miles on an oil change ... ... ... ... . I guess I was just a little curious myself. I did chicken out a bit and do the filter changes with makeup oil which I've never done before :-laf I hope that doesn't skew my results too badly, since I've never done that before.



Running ~125,000 miles a year, the difference between 10,000 and 20,000 mile change intervals is 6 oil changes a year and 12 oil changes a year.

 

[AKaiser]

FWIW, Schaeffer's 9000, 5X40, fully-synthetic is supposed to remain a CI-4+ until around 2010.

Hey Joe, they call it 5W40 for a reason. :-laf

 

[roperteacher]

Just as a thought, I wanted to use the CI4+ as long as I could, then switch to the CJ anf never look back. I checked with my local dealer and the MOPAR HD Premium 15/40 Diesel oil is Still CI4+ and from what I understand is the Val voline Premium blue. I bought 4 cases to get me quite a few miles! Might ck with dealer to see if you can get some .

 

[amsoilman]

Once again, I wouldn't worry over the "new" CJ-4 oils, as long as you do "NORMAL" oil changes!

If you want to extend oil changes, then I would suggest you do regular oil analysis to determine the condition of the oil and engine. FYI. AAmsoil is still makeing the AME 15W-40 which is CI-4+. They will continue to make it till 2010.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Buffalo]

Schaeffer's 9000 Information Correction.

This morning (9/3/07), I just read, on the Schaeffer's website, that the their 9000, 5w40 will, in fact, be changing to the new CJ-4 formulation. This change should occur on Sept. 1, 07 for larger quantities & Oct. 15, 07 for smaller quantities (gallon jugs, etc. ).



This information is new to me & 'completely different' from what a Schaeffer's engineer told me during a phone call, a couple of months ago.



I, sincerely, apologize for passing along what has turned out to be inaccurate information. However, I didn't find out until just a few minutes ago.



Interestingly though, they said in their website that the CJ-4 will support extended drain intervals & use with low sulphur & high sulphur diesel fuels. The information on their site sounds encouraging.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[Blakers]

What is the disadvantage of the CJ over the CI? I will check with American Refining to see if they still have the CI - they have it on their spec sheets.

 

[JHardwick]

What is the disadvantage of the CJ over the CI?

Nothing that I can see.

 

[AKaiser]

Emissions system requirements dictate that CJ oils have less TBN than CI specs allow. That's one of the reasons why the oil change interval in 07. 5s is back down from the 7500/15000. Other than that, I couldn't tell you that there is any negative to CJ. Everything the oil mfrs tell you, it should be better if used according to the CJ schedule. That does suck, as it costs more and has a shorter useful running life, TBN-wise, but maybe not that much shorter, given that we're using 15 PPM ULSD, and not the old 500 PPM LSD.