Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Holly Blue not the Answer: For Me(VERY LONG)

[RJWEST]

DANGER, Long Rambling Post Ahead... . & and many miss spells.



First: If you are running a Holly Blue, Please, I do not intend to be critical.

I am only describing my experience with my installation of a Holly Blue



I had a relocated campaign pump , with big line kit and oversize Banjos.

Worked for a year( 12-13 psi,Min 10 Psi ). until trip in Aug to Inddynoplace.

Experienced several days of 100 deg temps, Than LP started ' Low Pressure'

3-5 PSI, Inttermitant. I was able to get a Holly Blue and all was fine for

about 2 months. Last trip, as soon as temps dropped in Maine, Pressure

started to fluctuate and drop below 10 Psi ( approx 5-10 at start up ).

Note: major grid cycling, Voltage drop, Fuel Pressure drop.

Seemed to be start of trouble. Since than, having returned to Florida I was still getting low fuel pressure on WOT ( 7 Psi ) and MAJOR PSi fluctuation.

I have since cleaned the Holly screen, installed a Bypass regulator,& added a high pressure spring in the Holly Blue,

Results 11-12 PSi Idle ( Very little pressure Fluctuation ) but Fuel pressure drops to 5-7 Psi at WOT... .



Now, I did call * Holly about application, What I think I learned:

1. * Holly Pumps are not Suction pumps, Must be Gravity feed from fuel tank,

( Pump Lower than tank )



MO this is not practical on Dodge truck. ( unless you accept

limiting fuel to 3/4 tanks usage . Also since line in tank is restrictive,

the gravity feed will never be adequate for a return type fuel system

( regulator With return line ) The pump will always be in a state of partial cavition.

Note : the pump comes with a Dead Head regulator

which also did not work well on my truck... , very low fuel pressure.



2. *Holly Pumps and others are not reliable with Diesel Fuel, To viscous

puts to much load on pump, causing premature failure.

( ? My problems started in cold climate, )



3. * Holly pumps not recomended for Diesel, Seals/components may deteriote



I also spoke with Jegg's, There tech rep said that the Holly and Others

Have had poor track records with Diesel Fuel, not recommended



I also looked on Mallory web site, There 'Blurb' on Typical vane pumps state That Alum housings deteriote with Diesel Fuel ( ?)



SO: It appears Holly Blue and other vane type pumps are not a good choice,



So, My Perceived requirements are:

I need a replacement LP that provides adequate fuel pressure,

(10-15 psi idle and minimum of 10 Psi at WOT ( no HP upgrades )



LP Must have suction capability ( I want to be able to use my 35 gals of

fuel If I need to.



Now:

I have a Fluidamper, so a mech pump is a no-go.

and

I am still resisting the Major Buck replacements as I already have

have: Ret style Press reg/ & system plumbed to tank vent,



So what would meet my needs



The Airtex ??, ( other post )



A 'G' rotor type pump with a bypass check valve ?

( I want the IP to still operate on suction mode in advent of LP stoppage,

Engine Quiting is not an option )



Dual Campaign Pumps in Parallel?



I'M Open for suggestions!!!



Afterthought: How do you check the fuel tank screen for restriction

without pulling tank, is there some gravity feed to a bucket

flow number/method, Just wondering if I got a bad load of fuel,

Filters checked and clean ( twice ), but had a bad feeling about 1 fuel stop.



If you read this far you get a Prize, Click Here. . >>>>>>>> just kidding.



Thanks all, Happy Burb Day

 

[NHelmer]

I too have similar problems with the blue pump. More so with B5. Could be the bio deteriated the seals, although I have the pump torn down and haven't seen any major issues. Pump never failed but I could pull it down to 5psi when I said "enough". Finally took manys other's advise and shelled out the cash for a Glacier 392. Works great. And if it lasts for more than 12mos. the wife will be happy also.

 

[IC Smoke]

I know the holley is a gas pump but Ive had mine on for 3 years and going with no issues. even with the Michigan winters and hot humid summers.



Ian

 

[DavidC]

DANGER, Long Rambling Post Ahead... . & and many miss spells.





Afterthought: How do you check the fuel tank screen for restriction

without pulling tank, is there some gravity feed to a bucket

flow number/method, Just wondering if I got a bad load of fuel,

Filters checked and clean ( twice ), but had a bad feeling about 1 fuel stop.



If you read this far you get a Prize, Click Here. . >>>>>>>> just kidding.



Thanks all, Happy Burb Day

The way I found mine was to blow compressed air back thru the suction line to the pump. Reprime the system. All would be well for 1/2 mile or so then pressure would start dropping again. I believe rweis has a fluid damper and a Rasp or other mechanical pump. A recent thread about fluid damper has a statement about this. If you can afford it a Rasp. Mitusa or maybe the Glacier mechanical is the way to go in my opinion.



Dave

 

[rweis]

There are other mechanical drive systems. I have a RASP and a FluiDamper. VERY VERY close fit (Gilmer belt runs about 1/8" away from FluiDamper, crankshaft pulley runs 3/16" from fan blade), but do able.



The gasser racers run their belt Gilmer drives off other things like ps pump pulleys, alternator pulleys, about anything that turns up around the front engine covers (they do use the crankshaft pully also, but almost anything that turns). They have a wide variety of adapters that attach to these other drives, but Gilmer belt drives are prety common. They run mechanical pumps, but the diesel / gas (alcohol) compatiability may be an issue.



I also researched other mechanical external gear pumps (like the RASP / Fuel Boss) from industry. There are about 3 that I found that are almost like the RASP / Fuel Boss. That might be other possibilities. I was going to put a mechanical pump on a industrial partial hp (1/7) dc motor as a standby backup, but stopped the project because of room to mount the motor and mechanical pump down by the frame. The industrial mechanical pumps will suck diesel (SSU 39) up to about 5 - 6 feet, so they certainly can suck it out of a fuel tank, and they can pump molten lead, so ability of the pump is certainly there.



The cost is also a factor. I figuered about $400 for motor PWM controller, pump, coupler. I went with a very mountable Walbro 392 (with mounting, install package, an-6 fittings) for about $175. I use it as a RASP backup, not as the primary lp.



There are other possibilities, just have to be researched and adapted. I would be happy to send you the research I did into other mechanical pump systems.



Bob Weis

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I went through this EXACT same scenario! I moved a Dodge Carter style pump back to the tank. Then I bought the Holley Blue from the Jeg's store in Columbus, OH. Jeez what a waste of money.



I even live near Indianoplace (sp?)



I bought a USED FASS from R. Brown that was involved in a WRECK in California. It's still working.



FASS it and forget it.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

FASS and forget it

 

[Forrest Nearing]

lol, I was reading this thread and just made my post... you posted yours while I was reading. Looks like great minds think alike

 

[ThrottleJockey]

lol, I was reading this thread and just made my post... you posted yours while I was reading. Looks like great minds think alike

Yeah!:-laf

 

[DWeiler]

2 Carter black,2 Holly blue,2 Product Engineering pump(returned the replacement)and one noisy Fass(exchanged for the Airdog),all within 1 1/2 years equals a Airdog that has worked for over 3 1/2 years. If the Airdog died soon after the install i probable would of moved onto Rasp. It seems to be hit and miss with these pumps cause i started with what others recommended to me,there pumps are still working today,go figure. If i didn't have bad luck with these pumps i would have no luck at all#@$%!#@$%!#@$%!.

 

[RJWEST]

Please send me some of the great mind stuff, I think I ran out. .

Anyway, Thanks all, Will be re-reading all and formulating a plan
( that's probably a bad idea to start )
Think I will tinker with the Holly Blue some more ,
It does provide a very steady fuel pressure, maybe
dropping to 5-7 psi ain't to bad... .

(ICsmoke , I thought it would last ??, maybe something I did,
won't be the first time )... Oh, do you have any drop in fuel pressure when fuel tank is getting low???

Don't really want to go mech. pump until last resort... .
If it was a P7100 IP, I'd do it in a heart beat,
but since I need electrons to make it go, might as well stay all electric.

TX All.

 

[BWagnaar]

Have had my Blue pump on for about a year now. I had one quit on my hotrod. I dont run the reg on my truck and the pump is as far back on the truck as i could put. These pumps are dirt cheap and are hit and miss for some people. WHEN mine goes out i have a spare black pump, but i just might fork up the dough for a FASS or AIRDOG.

 

[drag racer]

So far, I have had good luck with the new Holley HP-150 gerotor pump and Vulcan Big-Line kit. Decent, stable pressure, and they are nice and quiet. Plus, these are much better quality than the old Holley Red/Blue/Black series.

#ad

 

[IC Smoke]

So far, I have had good luck with the new Holley HP-150 gerotor pump and Vulcan Big-Line kit. Decent, stable pressure, and they are nice and quiet. Plus, these are much better quality than the old Holley Red/Blue/Black series.

#ad

I saw that on TRUCKS last weekend, they put it on "haulin s-10" what size fittings is it plummed for?

 

[drag racer]

If I am not mistaken, it is 3/8"-NPT both inlet and outlet. I had to buy two AN-NPT adapter fittings for the pump and then the JIC fittings supplied in the Vulcan kit go right on.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Have had my Blue pump on for about a year now. I had one quit on my hotrod. I dont run the reg on my truck and the pump is as far back on the truck as i could put. These pumps are dirt cheap and are hit and miss for some people. WHEN mine goes out i have a spare black pump, but i just might fork up the dough for a FASS or AIRDOG.

I had this attitude, too. But in our case, when a lift pump goes out, having a spare is the least of our worries.



Having a new injection pump kinda creeps it's way to the top of the list.

 

[RJWEST]

Minor Update, Checking everything again, regrounded the Black
lead, No change to PSI,

Had to do a 120 mile round trip, needed fuel , so planned fuel stop
so I could see if fuel level affects PSI.

1/4 tank Idle slightly less that 12 psi
Steep grade WOT 7-8 PSi ( fluctuation )

Full Tank Idle slightly above 12 Psi
Same Steep Grade WOT 10 PSI ( no Fluctuation )

SO: Holly pump ( at least mine ) appears to be sensitive to gravity feed...

Still have not decided on replacement, keep you posted
( if anyone cares )

 

[RJWEST]

OK, Checked fuel flow from tank with LP unhooked.

The free flow from a near full tank is approximately
1 gallon in 3 minutes 20 seconds,
That should be 18 Gallons per hour.

Anyone have any idea if this is normal flow. ????

So, if the Holly is rated at 70 to 110 Gallons per hour
and does not have suction, than the pump is in cavitation
most of the time... .

 

[rweis]

I think the way to help prevent cavitation is to setup a fuel bypass back to the tank so fuel is flowing all the time.



I think the vane type pumps are not particularly well suited for the kind of application we have that pump against a set pressure. That is why the gearator or the parallel gear pumps work so well. Those pumps work well against a restriction that develops the pressure for the VP44.



Anyone know what the real in place Walbro 392 does in gph when working against a VP set pressure of about 14 psi? Not the theoretical graph lines, the actual in place install.



Bob Weis

 

[GordonG]

Holley Blue

My Holley blue died last month after 70K. I flat wore out the motor, the brushes were worn to little nubs. I found another one out here in the middle of nowhere for $110. Slipped it in place and have not looked back. If I get another 70K out of it I will be very happy.