Veg oil as additive???

[courierdog]

2 Cycle Oil

As always Gary you come to the floor with facts and figures.

I used Castrol 2 Cycle oil either Outboard or Snowmobile which ever is in stock at Canadian Tire at the time. Even in the 6. 7 it makes a huge difference. I sure did in my previous 3 Jetta Diesels and my wife's Diesel Beetle. At first I was concerned about the DPF but since the AU flash the regen cycle is operating correctly and there does not seem to be any difference in the tail pipe sooting.

I run a leaner mix of 10 oz to a tank (34 Gal - 129 litres) of diesel rather than the i oz to 1 Gal I have read. It also has a positive effect on the milage as well.

 

[mhenon]

so 2% bio is the best?

It's also the cheapest. Biodiesel typically costs a few cents more than D#2 (might be the same now!). When you cut it down to 2%. . you're talking pennies per fill-up. It's still the best bang for the buck!

Mike

 

[tgordon]

ok its sounds like you might not think that this is right.



lets say you take sand and start pumping it thru your injection pump in small amounts will it take more horsepower to turn the pump?



but if you take something really slick and start pumping it will it take less horsepower to turn the pump?



the veg oil has so much lubricity it makes the injection pump easy to pump the fuel that means more power the less friction in your drivetrain the easier the engine needs to work going down the road at the same speed.



friction is what we are dealing with thats where most of the heat comes from in an engine.

CJ, unless you installed some sort of over drive what you have is something engineers have been hunting for. You stated that your RPM's decreased and you speed remained the same. The only thing that will affect this to my knowledge is gearing. Maybe you mistyped and ment that your EGT's were down?

 

[LSchulz]

has anyone had success running a 24v VP44 truck on WVO ?

Yes, I have, and I know of a few others who have as well.

 

[DPalmquist]

cj If you are going 75mph shouldn't your rpm be reading the same and just the load on the engine be going up or down not changing the rpm's?

 

[Kawi600]

Theres all sorts of research posted online about this. The consensus is that the only way to safely run veggie oil is in a two tank system with the oil heated to 180F pre-injection. You need to filter and de-water the oil and possibly address the acidity of it before use.

I run a conversion with aux tanks and heated fuel pickups, heated filter, heated lines to the engine bay and a final heat exchanger before the pump.

If you dont filter, de-water and heat before injection, all sorts of problems can happen down the road. Incomplete atomization of the fuel due to high viscosity (lower temp fuel) will coat the walls and coke rings and maybe contaminate lube oil.

Id save the veggie for highway or towing use where the motor is consistently hot.

High injection pressures are good to a point. . Id avoid running veggie oil in any of the common rail motors.

 

[DodgeWarlock]

Been running 2qts corn oil(cheaper) and 1/2qt power service per 25gal fill for 5 weeks now. No noticeable changes in rpm(none expected), power(none expected) or mileage(none expected). Did notice that it seems to run a little quieter, but no way to actually test. No sign of water or gelling. Truck starts and runs normally even at the freezing temps my wife has had sometimes at 4 AM when she heads for work. Unfortunately, no way to see whats happening inside. Probably, switch over to 2-cycle as I found a couple of good sources to get it cheap. But glad to find what seems to be a plausible backup plan when 2-cycle is not available.



Also planning a move in the near future and learned there may be a good source for biodiesel in the area at a local christian school that has an engineering prep program.

 

[DSullivan]

I have put up to 15 gallons of wvo in my 04. 5 and it ran fine in the summer. started to smoke alittle on startup in the winter so I stopped doing it. I plan on starting doing it again in the spring

 

[Hootguy]

Well,,i've been runnig a 50?50 mix of veg oil and Jet fuel with 2 gal of regular gas to keep the blend fron seperating in my 96 12v motor,, with NO heating system whatsoever,,,even in the winter,,and yes,,it does get damn cold here in Ontario Canada,,

Before all the bleeding hearts start to tell me how mcuh damage i will cause my engine,,PLEASE note i have 150,000 miles of running like this,,and i've probably saved enough for an engine or two,,if ever. .

i plug it in at night,,fires right up in the morning no issues,,,,and yes it will start if left in the cold,,it sits every friday and saturday night for about 6 hours and start good still. .

In the summer,,i can go over 60% veg oil,,runs the same or better than diesel. .

I guess it all comes down to who you are,,and how gullable you are at listening to all the nay sayer who probably have never done any experimenting,,and strictly go by all the time they spent roaming the internet,,,

Of course your going to hear all disscouraging stories people,,BIG OIL doesn't want you to take money out of their pockets,,and will pay anything to make negatives statements and research available to non-risk takers. .

Myself,,i did my research from european contacts who have been doing this for 30 years. . i think they should know a thing or two. .

Veg oil as also worked great in the summer in a 2003 common rail for about 100,00 kilometers,,but only in the summer and it did have a small coolant wrap on the filter housing,,and keep clean filters in your truck,,

So,,it's all up to your risk tolerance i guess,,

 

[DCreed]

Thanks for the post, HOOTER69, sometimes it takes some big cohones to try things first and you were kind enough to let us know it's o. k.

 

[Hootguy]

sorry,,didn't mean to offend anybody,,

 

[cj hall]

hey hooter



offend anybody on this site ya right.



keep up the good work sure is nice to see other people doing something good better then hearing about how it wont work.



cj hall

 

[DCreed]

I must be off on punctuation? no offense at all! Thanks,really!:-laf

 

[cj hall]

look at what I found

Hello to all you grease heads.



This might just end this thread, yes it might not also.

I found this looking for something else. some people might just have to eat there own words. :-laf:-laf:-laf



Cooking oils boost low sulfur diesel fuel and engine lubricant performance



this is a company in montana that will be making motor oil from vegoil. yes its going to happen and its going to be good.

Peaks & Prairies - Biobased Oils and Lubricants

cj hall

 

[JFaughn]

What words would those be ?
It seems your point may be in a post I did not read or remember .
Could you remake the point your making here .

 

[mhenon]

Well,,i've been runnig a 50?50 mix of veg oil and Jet fuel with 2 gal of regular gas to keep the blend fron seperating in my 96 12v motor,, with NO heating system whatsoever,,,even in the winter,,and yes,,it does get damn cold here in Ontario Canada,,

Before all the bleeding hearts start to tell me how mcuh damage i will cause my engine,,PLEASE note i have 150,000 miles of running like this,,and i've probably saved enough for an engine or two,,if ever. .

i plug it in at night,,fires right up in the morning no issues,,,,and yes it will start if left in the cold,,it sits every friday and saturday night for about 6 hours and start good still. .

In the summer,,i can go over 60% veg oil,,runs the same or better than diesel. .

I guess it all comes down to who you are,,and how gullable you are at listening to all the nay sayer who probably have never done any experimenting,,and strictly go by all the time they spent roaming the internet,,,

Of course your going to hear all disscouraging stories people,,BIG OIL doesn't want you to take money out of their pockets,,and will pay anything to make negatives statements and research available to non-risk takers. .

Myself,,i did my research from european contacts who have been doing this for 30 years. . i think they should know a thing or two. .

Veg oil as also worked great in the summer in a 2003 common rail for about 100,00 kilometers,,but only in the summer and it did have a small coolant wrap on the filter housing,,and keep clean filters in your truck,,

So,,it's all up to your risk tolerance i guess,,

You've also got a 12 valve eng that would run on asphalt in a pinch. I don't think the 24v would hold up without thinning that mix out more. I've run up to 20% clean veg oil in my '02. After losing the VP at 79K miles i can't take the chance anymore.

As to 2% straight veg oil providing similar lubricity to 2% bio-diesel i believe it does. Seems I had file on my old computer of the effects of straight veggy oils and lubricity was increased (I'm running on memory here). i'll have to do a search but "usually" lubricity increases with viscosity.

With biodiesel becomming more available I don't feel the need to experiment like I use to. Good to see some of you guys are though.

Mike

 

[cj hall]

veg oil as a fuel

the point is



veg oil will run in a CI Engine (aka a diesel) it was made for veg oil yes it has been changed for the diesel fuel are grandfather's used and yes its changing for the diesels we are now having to buy (if you want a new one)



either you change the engine to match the fuel or you change the fuel to work in the engine

when the govt mandates a change in air coming out of these engines then they both scramble and change, leaving us with the problems of less mileage no lube and broken parts.



What I see is you have the people that say the only way to do it is to heat the veg oil .

You have the ones that say biodiesel is the only way it will work.

Then you have people like myself that are willing to try something different and tell others about what we find out.

Then you have the ones that say all the others are just foolish with trying theres nothing we can do.

How pissy would you all be if you found out that veg oil will work in a diesel engine just as good as biodiesel but the oil companys have told you for the last 15 years it would not work while they and there partners in crime got all the veg oil and controlled the market so even if you wanted to buy veg oil it would be 8 to 10 dollors per gallon just a bit more then the biodiesel they will be selling at 8 TO 10 Dollars per gallon in a few years. while they are making 10 billion in profit per week.





please do not take this the wrong way. ITS NOT ABOUT YOU ITS ABOUT THEM.



sorry for the rant I guess I need some meds!!!

cj hall

 

[DCreed]

The EPA and manufacturers are working hand-in-hand at planned obsolescence. The EPA changes the rules and the new tech is NEVER compatable with the old so that it will be phased out. Remember leaded gas? Now its ULSD. Soon to be ethanol. Everytime a change is made the move neatly makes the "just out of warranty and older" vehicles die quicker, so we will have near no choice but to buy new AGAIN. Even if our trucks last 500,000 miles , when the majority of warrantees is up the factory and govt will find a new reason to get you back in the dealership. Like Cali's latest? We all have a reponsibility to do whats best for or planets future but there are solutions that are far more beneficial than short term "band-aids" that the end user must pay for like the exhaust add-ons the EPA wants all diesels to have. Bottom line is , we can have cleaner, more efficiant, longerlasting, cheaper to run trucks by producing better bio based fuels (which can by phased in by %s) and keep driving our trucks while STILL producing far less pollutants, but thats obviously NOT what the "powers that be" want. Kudos to those of you that do it anyway!!

 

[Hootguy]

Well said to the last 2 posts. .

Government and Big oil companies makes billions of $$$$ of of us,,the goverment makes $$$ of every gallon of over priced fuel we put in our vehicule,,that's the reason they let the big oil companies do what they want with prices and record record profits in every quarter lately,,they dont want to put their nose into big oil since it's so profitable,,,but i'm sure if it comes down to it,,when election time comes,,somebody is make us all kind of promises to look into the price fixxing the oil companies have been involved in for a long time. .

Bottom line is,,,governments have been ripping off the people for years with taxes,,crooked politicians,,fuel taxes,,and others,,anything that will put money in their pockets,,,after all,,we need money to pay for all the crooked political programs and slush funds,,,can't have our politians driving around a 2 year old car right,,,someone has to put the payola in their pockets. .

And if you think you guys in the U. S. are getting robbed,,,you should just look across the border here in Canada,,,we royaly get the shaft here... try about $1. 00 more a gallon gas than most US cities,,except maybe calif,,but if your willing to live there,,you're willing to pay the price.

SO if anyone if going to give me hell for running around on free homemade fuel,,too bad so sad,,my goverment doesn't give two,%^&*$ about me and I dont give two $%^& about them,,,i'd love to see an enforcement officer try to give a fine for untaxed veggie fuel,,,one call to the enviromentalists group,,,and i'd have a front page storie,,they tried before,,but a single letter from a large newspaper,,and all was was dropped,,apparently fining people for doing something that helps the environment is a black eye politicly. .

Sorry for the rant,,but you watch government stand by and do nothing while you get robbed and you gotta say something...

 

[DodgeWarlock]

All good points. We've decided to keep running the mix we've been running since Thanksgiving(2gts veg oil/1qt Power Service to a 25 gal fillup). Although we had reported no change in mileage that can be directly attributed to this, we have noticed our average mileage increase slowly until it is almost back at the pre-ULSD average. We're not talking anything drastic, but on a weekly basis we got 18. 5-18. 75 prior to ULSD, 16. 75-17. 5 on ULSD and slowly back up to 18. 25-18. 5 on the mix. Nothing else has been changed or modifed on the truck since we started this mix. I'm not ready to claim this was the reason but, I'm unsure what other factor could have contributed besides possibly the cooler weather.



As for the politics...



The "Green Movement" puts pressure on government to legally mandate change. The auto manufacturers pressure for legislation that will help sell more cars. The oil companies want to sell as much product as they can, but also want to have an interest in whatever comes next. The current wave of emissions changes make all those groups happy even though the real benefits are not always clear. Environmental groups are happier with anything that "looks and sounds" cleaner. If it does not cost too much to implement the changes on their part, the auto manufacturers are pleased with any change that might make an older model seem obsolete(especially if they can also claim the new model is in line with the new green image). Oil companies are delighted with the new fuel because they get to claim they are trying to clean up there act while selling more diesel(due to lower fuel economy)to help offset the cost of the changeover. The general public takes all this in and believes it is progress and supports it. As much as we don't like the realities of it all, the politicians are just doing what they are told to do on every side.



As for the realities...



I have yet to see a study that addresses whether or not the cleaner emissions of the new fuel and emissions equipment offset the decreased mileage of the new trucks let alone the older trucks. Are we producing less emissions per gallon only to use more gallons and offset the benefit(or possibly even make things worse)?