Destroyed a 5.9

[DPelletier]

I got a call yesterday that one of my trucks ( '06 Cummins G56) that had gone in for servicing following a complaint of rough idle/low power required a motor replacement. This truck has approximately 60,000 miles on it and is usually used in a no-load to moderate loaded condition. 95% of the useage is highway miles.



I wanted some feedback on the diagnosis.



The truck was also leaking oil and this is what the tech's notes say:



Checked for oil leak found no visible leaks under vehicle since dye added. Noticed oil dripping from oil overflow tube. Looks like something causing oil to leak out of the tube and down vehicle. Checked PCV hose for restriction, hose OI. Romoved oil cap with engine running found excessive blow by coming out of valve cover. PCV valve possibly plugged causing issue. Need to replace then recheck. Parts ordered.



... they also replaced the ECM.



OK, so I'm told that the air cleaner was all "sucked in" and my guy described it as black and tary. Some particulate apparently entered past the filter, through the turbo (blades are nicked) and got into #1 cylinder causing it to be scored. I'm also told that #1 cylinder wasn't "firing" (not my words!) and that the cylinder was washed down. The Service Manager has been very helpful, but his diagnosis seems to be that somehow the air filter (between servicing) got overloaded with dirt (despite the hwy only miles) and then failed, got sucked in and allowed the debris to enter.





Now, from MY perspective and given all of the above, I would think that the most likely cause was a bad injector, causing #1 cylinder to washdown thereby causing the oil level to raise and leak out the fill tube as well as contaminating the air filter and causing it to get sucked in off it's seat. The debris likely entered the intake tract at that point and caused the scoring in the cylinder.



Opinions? Thoughts?



Thanks

Dave

 

[JCleary]

I'm definitely liking your theory better Dave...



A bad air filter won't cause an injector to fail.

 

[wcjp]

Can you have the "black and tary" substance analyzed?

 

[cerberusiam]

Except for "contaminating the air filter and causing it to get sucked " your theory is what usually happens, that can't happen.



If the filter is plugged with a black tarry substance I would guess the truck was running on some freshly oiled roads and managed to suck enough in to plug the filter. Depends on where you have the cold air coming from.



Now just exactly what came first is gonna be the fight.

 

[MA2LA]

ya and lets face it if they can say nope it all your fault its better for them its kinda like going to jail and being held there until you can prove you are innocent. I'm in a fight right now aswell but not that bad compared to you issue

 

[DPelletier]

Can you have the "black and tary" substance analyzed?

I wish I could! My employee threw it out. I even went so far as to check to see if the bin he put it in got emptied and sure enough it went to the landfill the day previous.



Dave

 

[DPelletier]

Except for "contaminating the air filter and causing it to get sucked " your theory is what usually happens, that can't happen.



If the filter is plugged with a black tarry substance I would guess the truck was running on some freshly oiled roads and managed to suck enough in to plug the filter. Depends on where you have the cold air coming from.



Now just exactly what came first is gonna be the fight.

yeah, that's the one piece of my theory that's a little weak. The truck is bone stock (and I don't have one here to look at) but I had thought that it draws some underhood air. The hood matt had some oil soaking and there was definitely lots of oil floating around as the tailgate and the trailer are both covered in oily residue. I have no other reason for the filter's collapse. As I said the truck is driven on the highway only, never been offroad and although there has been some road construction... ..... ??





Dave

 

[p-Bar]

Keep us updated. Sorry to here about this. Check the tube down to the turbo you could probably scrap something ou of that and send in for analysis. Have witnesses with you to sign what came out. Documentation important

 

[MoparDave]

When did the 5. 9 begin to use a pcv valve?

 

[Ducman82]

im with MoparDave, i have a 06 CTD and its air to air box to turbo, no PCV hose or anything? cali truck then???? even then... . thats alot of oil being blown in the engine bay to go in the fender( when aire box gets air) to cause THAT much damage and with that much oil, your windshield should have been coverd.

 

[cerberusiam]

yeah, that's the one piece of my theory that's a little weak. The truck is bone stock (and I don't have one here to look at) but I had thought that it draws some underhood air. The hood matt had some oil soaking and there was definitely lots of oil floating around as the tailgate and the trailer are both covered in oily residue. I have no other reason for the filter's collapse. As I said the truck is driven on the highway only, never been offroad and although there has been some road construction... ..... ??





Dave

If you have oil underneath and back to the tailgate its probably from the injector over filling the crankcase and the oil\fuel mix getting blown out the crankcase breather tube.



The stock air box should draw air from the fender well and not underhood air. Unless you punched holes in the stock air box I have a real hard time believing oil will get all the way across the engine compartment and behind the fender from the crankcase vent.



Anthing is possible I suppose but that air flow is just contrary to everything that has been found to this point. Where on the hood mat is the oil soaking located? One side, both, front, rear, etc?

 

[p-Bar]

send the oil out for analysis to see if diesel is in it

 

[icman95]

I was just thinking the same thing as p-bar. If they haven't changed the oil yet insist on an analysis.

 

[CoastyAV8R]

You can't argue their air filter diagnosis since your boys tossed the air filter so your best recourse is to find an excessively high amount of diesel fuel in the engine oil with an oil analysis and fight it that way.

Good luck...

 

[TCluff]

this one is on dodge, of course if the truck is bone stock, the blowby could be a bad intake valve and on the compression stroke forces oil and fuel into the intake tract contaminating the air filter, they might then still be able to pin it on you saying it was ran too long, the injector spraying fuel but cylinder not firing is from low compression(bad piston/valve or seat, but if the piston was toast you should have oil in the exhaust too that is why i think its in the cylinder head, either way its not too much hassle to rebuild the cummins, i blew mine up TWICE good learning expierience though, it takes a little money but not too much to repair it, with that low of miles bearings and the other five pistons might still be reusable, if the cylinder bore is trashed you can sleeve it, the sleeve is 70 dollars and a piston is about 130 dollars with the rings for that one piston, also if the cylinder bore is trashed it may have contaminated the bearings, a new cylinder head from cummins is around 1100 with 200 core not factored in or you can have it rebuilt but i found after shipping costs are added in and the amount of the rebuild i just buy new ones, good luck, i think it should be warranty

 

[JCasper]

I know a guy in Cranbrook who just had his turbo replaced due to dust getting by a collapsed air filter and wearing it out. I wonder if he will have motor issues down the road.

 

[MMeier]

When did the 5. 9 begin to use a pcv valve?

X 2!!!

 

[ABritt]

I got a call yesterday that one of my trucks ( '06 Cummins G56) that had gone in for servicing following a complaint of rough idle/low power required a motor replacement. This truck has approximately 60,000 miles on it and is usually used in a no-load to moderate loaded condition. 95% of the useage is highway miles.



I wanted some feedback on the diagnosis.



The truck was also leaking oil and this is what the tech's notes say:



Checked for oil leak found no visible leaks under vehicle since dye added. Noticed oil dripping from oil overflow tube. Looks like something causing oil to leak out of the tube and down vehicle. Checked PCV hose for restriction, hose OI. Romoved oil cap with engine running found excessive blow by coming out of valve cover. PCV valve possibly plugged causing issue. Need to replace then recheck. Parts ordered.



... they also replaced the ECM.



OK, so I'm told that the air cleaner was all "sucked in" and my guy described it as black and tary. Some particulate apparently entered past the filter, through the turbo (blades are nicked) and got into #1 cylinder causing it to be scored. I'm also told that #1 cylinder wasn't "firing" (not my words!) and that the cylinder was washed down. The Service Manager has been very helpful, but his diagnosis seems to be that somehow the air filter (between servicing) got overloaded with dirt (despite the hwy only miles) and then failed, got sucked in and allowed the debris to enter.





Now, from MY perspective and given all of the above, I would think that the most likely cause was a bad injector, causing #1 cylinder to washdown thereby causing the oil level to raise and leak out the fill tube as well as contaminating the air filter and causing it to get sucked in off it's seat. The debris likely entered the intake tract at that point and caused the scoring in the cylinder.



Opinions? Thoughts?



Thanks

Dave

got my truck in shop now doing same thing 64000 mile i told bad fuel. But call insurer company and takeing motor apart and #6 bad piston still waiting 2006 meg cab

 

[JCasper]

Keep us updated on all of this.

 

[DGamelin]

I think your wright Dave, my truck has a rear main leak two dealers told me the truck is to heavy for there lifts what a cop out.



MMeier

I dont think it is a pvc like as gas motor. It is a crank case filter that pulls oil out of the air and sends it back into the engine and not out the vent tube. 3rd gens have them. Had a 01 in here that had something like it but didnt have to work that part of it so didnt look that close.



04. 5 3500 cc 4wd dully 373 6speed 50k

93 2500 xc 2wd 354 auto 250k