free or decreased cost for website only

[DCreed]

Well, you asked. Here's mine.



It may be true that some of the younger hotrod set have moved on to the free sites so they can brag (temporarily) about all the aftermarket black boxes they've added and all the theoretical or imagined horsepower their engines make before they self-destruct.



For an old guy like me, the TDR website is just as good as it ever was, maybe a little better for the absence of the teenagers and the hotrod nonsense followed shortly by the angry tirades against Chrysler, Dodge, STAR, or their dealer for refusing to honor their warranty after they grenaded their engine. I don't really care to read that crap.

X2 on Harvey's comments. I've learned so much on this site and the printed material gives me something to fall back on. I'm old and still prefer reading printed materials over a computer screen. For less than a dime a day,it's a bargain. Not that long ago Robin personally helped me score a part I needed. She's a gem!

Your right, there's nothing better than a bunch of old timers sitting around the retirement home typing politically biased redundant chatter about climate controls, registrations, the latest do-dad add-on to enhance the visibility of their "ask me about my grandchildren" bumper sticker, while listening to the timeless rantings of rush limbah! :-laf

The site is DOOMED without new blood to replenish the ranks as the members inevitably fade out one by one. Eventually we will all have to hand the wrenches off to the next generation, I would like to think the mechanic at the dealer working on my truck was also a member of such an informative site as this.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I just know that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge stored away that can't be accessed.

I've been out of town for the last week so I just got into this thread. What do you mean that can't be accessed? Everything posted on the site back to the beginning is here and accessible - nothing "can't" be accessed. If your not seeing all the posts in a forum you just need to change the date range that is being shown. Go to the bottom of the thread list and you'll see a box that says "Display Options" - change the From The to "the beginning".



The search engine is VERY flexible if you know how to use it. Much more powerful and flexible than most forums out there as we are using a full SQL search. I made up a help screen that explains all of the modifiers that you can use. You can specify to include words and exclude others, specify date ranges, etc. Here is the search help screen - Turbo Diesel Register: Search engine help . Read through that and you'll find that it's very easy to use and extremely flexible. I've been able to go back and find posts back to the very beginning of the site with just a vague recollection of what it was about.

 

[AABEN]

ROBIN keep it like it is. I have ben on other sites where 15year old tell people they are +++ out of line and are a dummies. You do not see this on TDR

 

[LandShark]

I also think about if it is worth renewing every year when it's time to spend another 35 bucks. Then I think back during the last year about the time and money I've saved and it's a no brainer. The magazine is of marginal value to me, but I enjoy at least a couple of articles in each and I would be a member even if there was no magazine.

I am a member of several other similar web sites (free) but the quality of the information presented is low compared to the TDR.

 

[HBarlow]

Your right, there's nothing better than a bunch of old timers sitting around the retirement home typing politically biased redundant chatter about climate controls, registrations, the latest do-dad add-on to enhance the visibility of their "ask me about my grandchildren" bumper sticker, while listening to the timeless rantings of rush limbah! :-laf
The site is DOOMED without new blood to replenish the ranks as the members inevitably fade out one by one. Eventually we will all have to hand the wrenches off to the next generation, I would like to think the mechanic at the dealer working on my truck was also a member of such an informative site as this.

This great country was founded on just several simple principles. Included were the fundamental GOD- or nature- (take your pick) given freedom every person was born with and the rights to own property. These two powerful basics allowed industrious ambitious men and women to pursue their dreams and goals and most Americans have achieved them to some degree. All our ancestors wanted was freedom to make it on their own.

Then, maybe 30 years ago, the culture began to change. People began to believe they had a right to a certain standard of living and certain benefits earned by the work of others. They began to no longer value independence and freedom but wanted someone else to provide for them and create rules and regulations that would make it easier for them.

Many dependent Americans now believe that if they want something, someone else should provide it. They apparently feel no shame in demanding it.

Free membership in the TDR is just one tiny example. Personally, TDR is a great value to me. I am happy to pay for it if I wish to continue receiving the benefits . . . which I do.

I admire and appreciate those creative Americans like Robert and Robin Patton who apparently gave up jobs or careers to start this venture. They probably invested much of their life savings and gave up steady paychecks and took a huge risk and worked very hard to make this work because they had a dream they believed in. I think their effort is worth my measly $35 per year contribution.

I also admire people like Steve St. Laurent who is a computer whiz. I don't know if the TDR is a sideline job for him or is his full-time way of earning his living. Regardless, he is entitled to be paid for his efforts also.

Robert and Robin probably pay significant prices for all the contributing editors. None of those people should be expected to labor without compensation.

Paper, printing, publishing, distribution, computers, offfice space, employees, telephones, insurance, utilities, all those things and more cost money. Somone has to pay for it.

You can't simply go to the polls and vote for free TDR like you did for the political candidates you chose because they promised you something for nothing.

For those of you who want it for free, I say grow up! NOBODY owes you anything for free.

Creed, if it makes your small life seem more important, go ahead and make fun of my age. It doesn't effect me in the slightest. I was proudly serving my country at the age of 17, possibly while you were messing in your diapers and whining for your mother to provide you a free bottle of milk. You seem to have progressed little since then.

 

[DCreed]

Harvey, I'm happy to see you are as predictable as ever! And you're patriotic babble doesnt hide the ignorance or arrogance of your comments. I'm sorry your mommy didnt provide you with milk, maybe you'd be a nicer person if you had more love growing up.

 

[AClayton]

I would also like to see the search forums advanced. I check out this site nearly everyday and find much of the same info posted over and over.



I have only owned a CTD for about 3 yrs now and modded my truck for towing prowess and some hot-rodding. It is my truck and it is my toy and I guess... . at 42... . maybe a little immature of me to do,but it's mine and I worked for everything I've done to it.



I am one of the many members that seem to follow Harvey's posts. I enjoy reading each and every post he writes... . good or bad. I agree with so much of what HB posts but there are some things that raise flags. I do not judge him either way and members that don't agree should simply be adults and disregard the posts that offend. From what I have seen in the past,for every post that Harvey offends someone,the're are 10 or more that actually help another member. Don't like HB?... . fine! Ignore what YOU don't like!!!



I know Harvey probably cringes whenever he reads my sig and finds I have modified my truck... . you shouldn't hold that against members. It is our choice to do this and I realize my truck would not be covered under any warranty or not last as long as someone's truck that was un-modified..... but sometimes people like us can't help it.



Anyway,I like to think Harvey as my friend and will continue reading his posts. I would also continue on this site if the rate went UP another 35 a year. The information obtained here is simply irreplaceable.



Alan

 

[BDaugherty]

I completely understand the point of view expressed at the very beginning of this thread. Now for my $0. 02:



My TDR membership has paid for itself so many times over that I could be a member for life. Also, I'm not so sure that I want all the traffic that some of the other sites may have. In this particular venue I prefer quality over quantity.

 

[JWash1]

Harvey, I'm happy to see you are as predictable as ever! And you're patriotic babble doesnt hide the ignorance or arrogance of your comments. I'm sorry your mommy didnt provide you with milk, maybe you'd be a nicer person if you had more love growing up.

Eloquently Expressed! Oo. I Agree.

35 dollars is a small price to pay for information that is accurate. In my 47 years I have come to realize that although I usually Disagree politically with some of my older peers, I can learn a lot from them about other things that we do indeed agree on. Yes times have changed and some refuse to, but that is what makes us Americans.

 

[HBarlow]

Actually I don't give a hoot if someone modifies his or her truck. Soon after I purchased my first Dodge-Cummins, an '01 HO/6spd, I joined TDR and attended a TDR rally in Kerrville, TX. At the rally I purchased a set of Bosch/Cummins 275hp motorhome injectors from Joe Donnelly and Joe installed them in my truck. I put 325k miles on that Dodge and when I retired it in '06, family members bought it. It still runs good today with 350k on it and the same Bosch 275hp injectors are still in it.

If you carefully read my posts concerning modification you will see that what I post is facts backed up by tests reported in TDR magazine and by real mechanics who understand the HPCR engines.

I post that modifying a HPCR engine with a magic black box that increases pressure will cause injector failures and engine failures. I don't care if somebody wishes to destroy his truck but I do care when that person then gets on this public website and blames Chrysler/Dodge/STAR/and his dealer for bad quality trucks or engines and for refusing to honor the warranty he voided with his modifications.

What that individual is usually doing is attempting to commit warranty fraud. Fraud is illegal, immoral, and I don't wish to be part of a culture that condones it. If TDR members agree with the concept of defrauding Chrysler/Dodge on this public forum it makes the forum owners, administrators, moderators, and all members appear to the entire world to be as dishonest and lacking in character as the person who is attempting to deceive Dodge and his dealer. I speak out against that whenever I see it and apologize to no one for doing so.

Warranty fraud costs all other owners in the price of future trucks and parts. It is similar to those who think others should pay for their use of TDR. Similar thought process.

When a new member appears on TDR and inquires about modifying his engine with aftermarket air boxes or large exhaust I will sometimes tell him that neither will do squat for performance but, as written in TDR magazine many times, the intake filter mods will often allow foreign particles to enter the engine.

You will never find a post I wrote about modifying 12 valve or 24 valve pre-HPCR trucks. I have never opened a 12 valve thread in eight years as a TDR member. I seldom open or post in 24 valve threads.

This thread began with posts by two or three who apparently believe the TDR should be free because they don't want to pay and tried to use the leverage that the teenage hotrodders will leave if TDR is not free. I expressed my opinion about that. My opinion embarrassed or angered a couple who want it for free and those who think TDR should be for the hotrodders and old guys who disagree should be silenced.

Creed, you are one of the whiners. You apparently decided to insult me by name because you didn't like my posts. Throwaway insults by lightweights don't impress me much. I know who you are and how you think. I have entered into debates with you in the past.

 

[DCreed]

This thread began with posts by two or three who apparently believe the TDR should be free because they don't want to pay and tried to use the leverage that the teenage hotrodders will leave if TDR is not free. I expressed my opinion about that. My opinion embarrassed or angered a couple who want it for free and those who think TDR should be for the hotrodders and old guys who disagree should be silenced.

Creed, you are one of the whiners. You apparently decided to insult me by name because you didn't like my posts. Throwaway insults by lightweights don't impress me much. I know who you are and how you think. I have entered into debates with you in the past.

As usual you are CLUELESS. The thread is about Guys that have been here a while and feel TDR is worth being a member of but feel that it would make more sense to be competitive in the market with so many free sites available.
I called you out by name AFTER you did it, so as to be clear its fools like you that ,although semi entertaining, turn off many potential as well as long time members with your insulting and belittling rhetoric. IIRC you lost the previous debates because you couldnt keep on the subject but rather sunk to personal attacks of members who didnt agree with your one sided views. Nothing new here either.

 

[FFeiller]

i find it interesting that an individual is willing to spend thousands for their toy; but not two cents for the information on how it is done.

 

[Matt400]

When you have reached the point feeling you are paying for the privilege to help others and are no longer benefiting from the subscription costs it is time for change.

That change may very well be moving on to another site.

One to consider is JustAnswer.com where you are paid to help people. I did it for a while and moved on cuz it didn't feel fun and friendly yet I was paid. I would rather pay and have the fun and friendly atmosphere.



Making it free would be a bad idea for sure. One would now be overwhelmed with a flood of yet more help requests and since its free, those in need are not going to be as appreciative had they paid to belong.

TDR would become no different than the others and loose its uniqueness.



I use allot of automotive forums for fun and professional use not just TDR, yet I continue to pay up each year because the site is a "must have" for me. The Mag seems to collect dust at times but only until I travel at which time its the first mag I grab for great reading in the camp when I am taking a break from the PC.



As for activity being down, that doesn't mean the site is dying. Activity is down all over due to the economy. People are tightening up, spending less on their hobbies & toys which trickles all the way down to lower post counts.



So for me, I think its good the way it is.

 

[gbrinlee]

It is up to us as members to continue getting the word out and attract new members. The TDR has lots of information on our passion. I could see how some individuals could get tired of "not learning anything new". I for one have lots of individuals come to my house when they are in need of mechanical information or for help with a repair. I never get tired of helping these "newbies" as since they are interested in learning, anything that I can do to help them maintain their enthusiasm and keep them with a healthy outlet is well worth my time. I say that if there are those out there that feel they do not get their enjoyment out of the TDR anymore then let them "seek their entertainment elsewhere".

 

[bheiting]

I couldn't agree more with the previous posts that stated the value for $35/yr. What
can you get for that in these times. I have learned more in the past year and a half
subscribing to TDR than four years of college. Maybe TDR isn't for those who think
they know everything about the past, present, and future. But for those of us who
aren't too old to learn new tricks, TDR is a bargain. Genos too. If there is another
like publication with the quality and depth of information, I haven't seen it.

 

[TDRadmin]

Great Discussion - Thank You

I am reading with great interest this discussion.



Thank you all who affirm the value of the TDR. For those of us who earn our living working for the TDR or Geno's Garage, it means a lot to have you so enthusiastically support us. And yes, there are a number of people who pay their rent and put food of their table as a result of working for the TDR or Geno's Garage. This is not just a hobby; it is how we make our living.



I am making a list of possible improvements (i. e. search, etc. ). I understand that even if our search function is robust, if people don't feel that it is, then it isn't. I'm also looking at your discussion around web-only memberships that would come with a reduced cost for those who do not benefit as much from the magazine. (Note: I also like to collect my magazines - TDR and others - and read on the back porch or while travelling. I just can't do all of my reading on a computer screen either. )



The only thing that is disheartening on this thread (but I must somewhat entertaining to read) is why some feel they must personally assault/attack others. That is one reason why we don't want to be free and open TDR Members up to pot shots from the general public - many of whom don't even own a truck. But I guess that is part of the anonymity of the internet. We will say things on a keyboard that we probably wouldn't say to someone else's face. But like I say, it is entertaining to read as long as no one gets hurt.



Please post any ideas you would like for us to consider. We are reading these posts with genuine interest and with the intent of improving this site for all.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[Pistazie]

The format of the magazine and website work for me, and access to the archives provides members with a wealth of information. It's fantastic.



But maybe a real electronic survey of the TDR members would help identify improvements and ways of increasing membership instead of giving too much credence to the few comments here.



I think its a good idea to give longstanding members who don't want the magazine free access to the site because their contributions are invaluable, and make the site what it is.



I don't know the business relationship between this site and Genos Garage, but maybe there are ways to leverage more memberships from that relationship? (But I've also noticed that Genos is a sponsor on a number of other diesel truck sites, so maybe they can't do that... ). Maybe a one month trial on the website with a purchase at Genos, and/or a trial issue of the publication.



Being a member on numerous diesel sites, I've noticed that lots of people out there are interested in proper vehicle maintenance, and additions to increase safety, mileage, utility of their truck... . it's not just about making big HP numbers, smoking out intersections, and voting for boostbunny 2009. I guess getting them to find this place is the key. I sorta just stumbled upon it form a google search one day and thought it looked interesting, and I'm so glad I joined!



Just a few thoughts from a new member...

 

[jdooner]

I've coasted some of the other sites and all the advertising is a pia. $35 isn't going to make me or break me and I'd gladly pay it with or without the magazine. Don't change a thing!!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

My early years here were entirely as a new student of diesel power - had lots of gasser hands-on experience - but diesels were new to me. I recovered the TDR subscription price many times over - and eventually, as my own knowledge improved, have steadily attempted to repay the debt of my own education to others new to diesels as I had been. I'm still FAR from any sort of "expert" - but have managed to originate a few how-to threads of my own over the years - trying to focus on the easier and easily duplicated stuff even relative beginners could tackle and complete easily.



The TDR, like most specialized sites, will NEVER be a "one-size-fits-all" place, nor should it cheapen itself or dilute the quality it has established, in attempting to do so - it is what it is - those who appreciate it for WHAT it is will continue to benefit from the wide variety if expertise available here - and those who DON'T - well, good luck in finding that higher level of content that you specifically are looking for...



And go in peace...

 

[DCreed]

The format of the magazine and website work for me, and access to the archives provides members with a wealth of information. It's fantastic.



But maybe a real electronic survey of the TDR members would help identify improvements and ways of increasing membership instead of giving too much credence to the few comments here.



I think its a good idea to give longstanding members who don't want the magazine free access to the site because their contributions are invaluable, and make the site what it is.



I don't know the business relationship between this site and Genos Garage, but maybe there are ways to leverage more memberships from that relationship? (But I've also noticed that Genos is a sponsor on a number of other diesel truck sites, so maybe they can't do that... ). Maybe a one month trial on the website with a purchase at Genos, and/or a trial issue of the publication.



Being a member on numerous diesel sites, I've noticed that lots of people out there are interested in proper vehicle maintenance, and additions to increase safety, mileage, utility of their truck... . it's not just about making big HP numbers, smoking out intersections, and voting for boostbunny 2009. I guess getting them to find this place is the key. I sorta just stumbled upon it form a google search one day and thought it looked interesting, and I'm so glad I joined!



Just a few thoughts from a new member...

This guy seems to have it about right.

I would take it one step further and say that maybe those who choose could have the magazine (rather than sent to them) placed in an "extra" bin to be handed out as free samples at events or for those who inquire (much like those that are sent to troops). This would come at no real extra cost to the members or staff and be a way to help recruit new members or just as a reserve for folks that wanted a particular back issue of interest or whatever.

Also along the lines of the search engine and archives, maybe the FAQ section could be categorized and grouped into relevant links like interior and then sub categories like dash,seats,headliner,ect. I know that is a HUGE project but if it was started in the 1st gen area as a test mule and also where it is most needed IMHO?