Diesel Electric conversion for our trucks

[EricBu12]

Have a crazy thought. . Don't know if the parts are available and work so here is my Idea.



Remove driveline, transmission. Hook some kind of high HP Electric Motor upwards of 300 HP directly to the front of the Axle Yoke, This will be the main propulsion.



Hook a high power generator to the rear of the Mighty Cummins to supply power to the motor and charge some reserve batteries in the bed. .



For 4X4, a smaller motor like 150 hp can be added to the front axle yoke with a high power manual switch to turn on or off the motor... to make 4x2 or 4x4. .



Several Big batteries can be in the bed in place of a big fuel tank. ... I have a "high Idler" to rev the engine to 1500. . Use the foot throttle for the electric Motor...



Truck should be a very high mileage vehicle ... Don't know how high. . At least 70MPG I bet. ... what do you all think?

 

[n7gxz]

The military had some hybrid Dodge Ram Cummins powered trucks that they were evaluating. I don't know if it has gone beyond that point or not.



Kevin

 

[jgillott]

I was reading an artical on the Chevrolet Volt that is supposed to come out in late 2010. It is a plug in hybrid that can run 20 or 30 miles or something on a charge, but also has a small gasoline engine to power a generator to extend the range. What you are describing seems to be a much simplier technology, especially if you eliminate most of the power storage need of the plug in aspects.

 

[jwgary]

The key to a setup like this is that you use a smaller engine that is running at peak power/efficiency to charge the batteries. That power level is less than what you need to power the wheels for max acceleration. It all evens out when you run on the freeway at 10% of the max power needed and the batteries are recharged. The mighty Cummins is unfortunately too big for this application.

 

[Skydiver]

Battery technology is just now getting out of the "stone age era" and years before high efficient batteries are available to the GP.

One reason I have not got serious about a hybrid is having to replace the $3000 batteries.

The other problem I have with highly efficient vehicles is they need to be very light and are not as safe as heavier vehicles.

I would love to own a 40 horse 5 star safety rated 1400 lb 2 seater that has air/cond and gets 97mpg on diesel. I owned a 51 horse diesel VW in 1981 that got 46 mpg max.

 

[MVenditti]

I have been think the same thing for long time. Working in construction I see small 3 or 4 cylinder diesels running big welders, generators and machines. Generators and such run all day at full throttle on only a few gallons. 20 or 30 gallons for a 17000 pound machine. With electric and hydraulics we could have powerful vehicles that use little fuel. But then the politicians with the stock and friends in oil biz would have to work for a living.

 

[EricBu12]

I imagine it would have to be high voltage with batteries. . Wired in Series to make like 48 or higher volts. . then a small bank of them parallel to give good amps. .

The batteries would be just a reserve or if you wanted to move the truck or park it or go though a Drive-through restaurant. Like that. . The Generator that the cummins would be turning would provide a little more than the electric motor would need at full torque. then if at speed, the batteries are full, the wind is at your back, and towing or cruising light,. . you could idle back the engine to 900-1000 rpm.

Anyone know of an electric motor that is variable and High HP like this and also a Generator that could bolt up to our cummins? know of any parts like this?

 

[Little Bill]

Here's a little insight on the Volts power train. 350 volts at max power demand. Estimated 50 mpg when gas motor is running, which it pretty much does after the first 40 miles. Would probably get better mileage with conventional drive train.

I believe a 300 hp (225 kW) variable dc electric motor requires 500 volts.

Chevy Volt Specs | Chevrolet Volt Concept Car Specs

 

[monkeyman]

It would seem to me with all that cost it would be less expensive to add a CNG conversion that could get you up to 35 mpg, for less.
Rick

 

[DennyDay]

I think Y'all are thinking the wrong way, trying to build a battery powered and operated vehicle I would like to have a 4 cylinder Cummins, driving a genset in place to a transmission, with an electric motor at the wheels, either 2 X 4, or 4 X 4. This would be just like a railroad locomotive. The diesel engine would supply all auxillary equipment just like they do now, the generator would supply power to the drive motors thru a rheostat with a foot peddle control. Using the same system as a locomotive, there would also be the capability of dynamic braking. (better than and exhaust brake or a transmission retarder) The only batterys would be the starting/lighting battery with charging supplied from the main generator or a 12.



To me this would be the simple way, with no battery weight to carry around, the power would be outstanding, and fuel mileage would be less than 2 gallons per hour in a standard size 3/4 ton pick up, and talk about power for pulling a load!!



Denny

 

[rscurtis]

One thing to keep in mind relevant to this discussion is that the efficiency of a diesel-electric locomotive is derived not from its method of propulsion, but from the fact that it has steel wheels running on steel rails. The advantage of the electric drive system is the ability to move heavy loads without the use of clutches, transmissions, torque converters or drive shafts.

 

[BobSacco]

Diesel-electric locomotives derive significant efficiency due to running the diesel engine at its most efficient RPM and at an almost constant speed. This, as most of us know, yields the best fuel economy. Modern generator controls (actually, alternator, as the electrical output is AC power) and AC traction motors provide constant torque from zero to full speed efficiently, as there are no losses due to transmissions, torque converters, or passive motor speed control. Dynamic braking energy could be used to charge a capacitor bank, which then supplies some of the power required when accelerating or running on level ground. It seems to me that this system adapted to a truck could be a very efficient means of propulsion.



In response to the DC electric motor question, while most of them in that size are either 240 or 500 volt, the armature and field volts are a function of the design, so they actually can be whatever the designer desires, within reasonable limits. One practical limitation is wire size, i. e. DC watts = volts x amps, so as the volts decrease, the amps must increase.



DC generators are what diesel-electric locomotives used to use, but as electronic controls became more sophisticated, reliable and less expensive, AC became popular. Unlike a DC generator, an AC alternator does not use brushes and a commutator to transmit the generated power from the rotor (armature). This eliminates sparking, brush/commutator maintenance, and removes the speed restriction imposed by the physical limitation of a brush/commutator system.



Sorry for being long-winded, too much coffee too early in the am!

 

[Little Bill]

The real catch here is that Eric wants the ability to make 300 hp (225 kW). That's going to require a 250-275 kW genset which will require 350-375 HP to run it. Those pesky laws of thermodynamics keep getting in the way.

 

[jwgary]

But you don't need 300 hp all the time. If your motors can provide that with a large enough battery bank to keep the supply up for a sufficient time, your genset can be significantly smaller since you recharge over a longer time.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HMMMmmmmm - lessee here, we want a large, bulky and HEAVY *truck platform* with the streamlining of a brick, that we will convert to diesel-electric power - all that with a engine/alternator/battery system that UNDOUBTEDLY is bulkier, heavier - and demands pretty much ALL the available bed space for the batteries and related components - rendering the pickup totally USELESS for it's original purpose?



YUP - sounds like a plan to me...

 

[MVenditti]

diesel generator

The generator can run the car or truck, charge batteries, power hydrostatic drive system weld, and with power failure at home could be connected to your house as a backup generator.

 

[Little Bill]

But you don't need 300 hp all the time. If your motors can provide that with a large enough battery bank to keep the supply up for a sufficient time, your genset can be significantly smaller since you recharge over a longer time.

Ok, our 100kW gensets on the hog and chicken houses run on 6 cylinder Cat and Perkins turbo diesels. I believe they are rated at 160-170 hp. It will take forty two 12 volt batteries to make up 500 volts for the odd burst where I need 300 hp. Eighty four batteries if I need more than a minute or two full power. That's another 4000 pounds on top of my already 8000 pound rolling weight. That doesn't include the locomotive cable required to wire up 42 batteries in series or a second set in parallel. Probably need to put it all on a tandem axle GN trailer so I have enough room in the bed for a bag of groceries, a gas can and an spare trailer tire.

A Prius may be more cost effective and will have a better resale value. Myself, I'd buy an '06 or older VW TDI.

 

[Curious Dave]

Gary... you really know how to be a party pooper.

 

[Adventure Bob]

Diesel locomotive engines have the highest driven output per volume of fuel used. Rolling on steel wheels helps when converting to ton-miles/gal but they are still damn efficient at turning diesel into torque. They run the diesels at peak torque based on current draw and they have very few mechanical parts between the engine and the wheels.

Much of the autos problems are the parasitic loss due to the nature of the drivetrain; 15% to 25% depending on how you figure it. Imagine how much of a performance product you could sell if it gave you an instant 15% jump in power to the wheels? Youd be a millionaire.

We dont need incremental changes in transportation, we need a revolution. The Volt is merely interesting and completely useless because it doesnt address the fundamental problems with the car. Hell our neighbors diesel jetta gets 47MPG without any fancy or expensive technology and it doesnt rely on batteries that are going to have to be buried next to our nuclear waste in five to seven years.

 

[BobSacco]

You may not need a battery bank for momentary bursts of power. If the electric motor driving the vehicle is the same as a typical industrial motor, it will be cable of providing 150% torque for up to 1 minute. The limiting factor is the genset overload capability.



Capacitors could be used instead of batteries to provide extra electric power for short periods of time. They don't have the power density of batteries, but are smaller and weigh a lot less.