In the Market for a New TT

[GCP]

Hello everyone,



The wife and I have become very interested in purchasing a travel trailer for the two of us to cruise the country. We have never owned any type of RV. Our trips would range from short 3 day excursions to 3 or 4 week journeys. We would primarily travel in the spring, summer and fall. Winter trips would be neat, but I'm not to familiar with how well a TT would hold up to cold weather.



The brand we keep eyeing is the Jayco Jay Feather series.



What brands has your experience told you are safe, reliable and comfortable? Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated.



Thanks,

GCP

 

[BBeck]

Given the amount of time you will be spending with it, I would strongly suggest the Arctic Fox TT. They are 4 star rated out of five, with extra insulation, enclosed underbelly and heated tanks. Outstanding construction, materials and workmanship - a true four season TT.



I recently bought a used '04 Jayco Eagle, which is their top of the line TT. It meets our needs as we only use it for vacationing and I was able to buy it under NADA.



The Jay Feather is their light weight trailer and I doubt it would hold up to the level of use you would have with it.



It is extremely hard to find a used Arctic Fox and then one that is priced close to NADA. New ones should be negotiated at about 21% under MSRP as a rough starting point.



Enjoy the research and finding the perfect TT.



Brad

 

[AMink]

For two people, I'd suggest staying in the 24' range, with a slideout. Carefully consider what your are going to do with it. We spend time on less than perfect roads, many times dirt. You want a well made unit or you will be forever tightening things up. Like the nuts that hold the box to the frame. Storage is important, but carefully planned packing is more important. Don't take what you'll never need. You might have to take a few short trips to figure it out. I'd like to get rid of all our "hard" plates and cups and just use paper, but I haven't won that battle yet! This may sound weird, but make sure you're both comfy on the potty. I've been in a few units where it was a really tight fit. A walkaround bed is worth it's weight in gold. It's a pain to crawl over each other in the middle of the night. See if your bed will fit a true queen size mattress as opposed to the trailer queen, especially if you're over about 5'10". If you are planning on doing a lot of dry camping, try to get at least a 50 gallon tank. Maybe most important are the tires and wheels. Do a search here and on RV sites and you will find a great deal of disdain for ST rated tires. If you can get into a 16" rim that is compatible with LT E rated tires, go for it. ST tires flat out suck. With your truck, you can comfortably pull a 9-10,000 pound trailer on the stock hitch. You don't have to, of course, but the tools are there. That means you don't have to go with a lightweight trailer. Get one that is more substantial and that will last. Worry about the "fancy" things like color, fabric, and curtains last. Personally, I wish we didn't have any carpet in ours. If you can find an RV show, go to it and look around. Don't even look at the prices, just the floorplans and styles. Keep an eye out on Craigslist and eBay. You can find some really good deals on barely used units in this economy. There is a lot more info, so look around.



As far as brands, I've heard REALLY good things about Arctic Fox. Also, our friends had a really nice Nash that they used for years. Our 91 Wilderness is now in it's 18th year with friends. The Wildcat we have now is good, but I'm sure there are better out there.

 

[HBarlow]

The advice I always give on TDR and that is always ignored is this: Decide on an amount you will spend for a travel trailer then buy a trailer built by one of the top manufacturers with a reputation for quality. Do your homework to determine those brand names. Don't fall into the "buy what I bought" trap. Many want you to buy what they bought to make them feel better about their purchase, not because what they bought has proven to be a good one.

If your budgeted amount permits the purchase of a new one, fine. If not, buy the nicest, newest used trailer of one of the top brands you can find. There are always hundreds of top quality late model used TTs available.

Do a google search for "Lippert frames" to learn which manufacturers use Lippert frames and imported Chinese running gear. Learn about the problems owners have had and are experiencing with Lippert components.

 

[Jim W]

I agree with H. Barlow and what he said to do. I would also look at this web site attached below. You may know about this site or not. I would review this site for TT and ask their owners what they think of their TT. I used this site to review my used purchase of my 5ER in Sept 07.



RV. Net : RV. Net: RV Forums, an online community for RVers



Good Luck.

Jim

 

[RVTRKN]

Before I purchased my Arctic Fox, I inspected the frame, at least of what I could see, and it looks much more capable than what it is used for with a high GVWR, compared to the actual dry weight. They do differ greatly within the RV industry and is important that you check these stats.



You can add that to your checklist. Look at the GVWR vrs the dry weight because of your fresh water needs, and all of your gear before you start out on your vacation. But as you travel, and when you can not dump your grey and black tanks, you will increase your weight significantly. Water weighs 8. 34 lbs per gallon, so if you times that by the total volume it can hold with all the tanks full you will know your limit, but don't forget to include your propane weight.



Also, when you do buy it, load it down to a full load, with all of the liquids full and gear and truck with cargo on a certified CAT scale for truck GVW (front and rear axles) and tongue weight and trailer weight. That way you will know you are within the safe limits of your rig. You can always adjust your water volume using the water weight calculations to prevent overloading when necessary, but you will never know if you dont weigh it first fully loaded.





For a recommendation, I found my Arctic fox to pass that test with plenty of room for extra gear if I needed it, and suggest you might want to look into a nash product as well. (same manufacturer)

 

[MJarske]

I would never buy Jayco again... ... ... ..... ever!



Mike#@$%!

 

[GCP]

Thanks for all the great suggestions and tips. Keep them coming! I'll look into Arctic Fox some more.

I would never buy Jayco again... ... ... ..... ever!

What shaped your opinion of Jayco?



Thanks,



GCP

 

[CROW]

I agree with those who have indicated they would prefer a quality used unit to a new low-end unit. Remember, they all look good on the lot for the most part. I have a Newmar fifth wheel now but, when the time comes for a new unit, I will look at Arctic Fox fifth wheels. Have their DVD and it appears that they make a really good solid unit. You might go back and review Jim Anderson's article in the TDR Issue 56 (Page 138) where he talks about the problems with some inexpensive RV's. Have you considered a fifth wheel rather than a travel trailer for ease of towing and hitching up? Good luck in your search.

 

[BBeck]

The advice I always give on TDR and that is always ignored is this: Decide on an amount you will spend for a travel trailer then buy a trailer built by one of the top manufacturers with a reputation for quality. Do your homework to determine those brand names. Don't fall into the "buy what I bought" trap. Many want you to buy what they bought to make them feel better about their purchase, not because what they bought has proven to be a good one.



If your budgeted amount permits the purchase of a new one, fine. If not, buy the nicest, newest used trailer of one of the top brands you can find. There are always hundreds of top quality late model used TTs available.



Do a google search for "Lippert frames" to learn which manufacturers use Lippert frames and imported Chinese running gear. Learn about the problems owners have had and are experiencing with Lippert components.

HBarlow:



I purchased a 2004 Jayco Eagle. It has the Dexter frame and axles. Also, when I looked at a brand new Arctic Fox, it had Lippert axles on it. That really surprised me. The trailer I bought meets my needs and budget for now. It is our first trailer and if we really enjoy it as much as I think we do, then I will upgrade to a higher rated trailer.



This trailer was rated 3. 5 stars for value and quality. The downside was the highway control. It is also rated as a snowbird, but we will only be using it for vacationing. Armed with the info from RV Consumer Group, I adjust how I pack it and I empty the tanks before I leave camp when possible.



I also have a CAT scale for truckers close by to check the balance before leaving. I tried to find a used Arctic Fox, but none were available that matched my needs nor priced anywhere close to NADA. New was not within my budget, but maybe in a few years.



Brad

 

[BBeck]

Northwood Mfg. purchases Fleetwood mfg plant in OR

Speaking of Arctic Fox and thus Northwood Mfg. Did anyone notice in Trailer Life this month that the owners have just purchased the Fleetwood plant in Oregon, with rights to Fleetwood's travel trailer designs and prints? The new company is called Outdoors RV Manufacturing - Outdoors RV Manufacturing



Northwood will be incorporating many of the same construction techniques into this new line of TTs. The new brands will be called Wind River, Creek Side, Timber Ridge and Tamarack Trail.



Brad

 

[HBarlow]

HBarlow:

I purchased a 2004 Jayco Eagle. It has the Dexter frame and axles. Also, when I looked at a brand new Arctic Fox, it had Lippert axles on it. That really surprised me. The trailer I bought meets my needs and budget for now. It is our first trailer and if we really enjoy it as much as I think we do, then I will upgrade to a higher rated trailer.

This trailer was rated 3. 5 stars for value and quality. The downside was the highway control. It is also rated as a snowbird, but we will only be using it for vacationing. Armed with the info from RV Consumer Group, I adjust how I pack it and I empty the tanks before I leave camp when possible.

I also have a CAT scale for truckers close by to check the balance before leaving. I tried to find a used Arctic Fox, but none were available that matched my needs nor priced anywhere close to NADA. New was not within my budget, but maybe in a few years.

Brad

Brad,

I didn't see your post addressed to me until this morning.

Jayco is one of the brands I would consider for weekend/vacationing use and for a starter trailer. I consider Jayco a good value for the price, not among the top rated manfacturers but a good trailer for the dollar. I pulled a lot of Jaycos and liked them when I was transporting. I witnessed a few dealer delivery inpections and it appeared that they were put together pretty well.

I've never seen or read an RV Consumer report so don't know what the report bases its opinon about highway control on. The rating is probably based on some measure of tongue weight as a percentage of overall weight and some opinion about sway. Perhaps the report also measures braking ability? You didn't specify fifth wheel so I'm assuming you bought a conventional tt?

One thing I would encourage you to address immediately on a 2004 trailer is the tires. If you purchased a lightly used 2004 model it probably still has the OEM tires which are already too old for safety. You can read the DOT code molded into the tire carcass on the inside sidewall of each tire.

When I was pulling Jayco trailers the smaller/lighter tts were equipped with "WillPop" brand ChiComm tires which, imo, were just good enough to make the trip from factory to dealer. If I owned one I would pull it directly from the dealer to a tire store and put a new set of tires on it.

Unfortunately, Jayco conventional tts are equipped with small 13" or 14" wheels. IMO opinion there is no such thing as a good trailer tire and no light truck tires of quality are manufactured in any size smaller than 16". The best you can do, again imo, is a set of Goodyear Marathons and I hate GY tires. If your trailer is a fifth wheel I would strongly recommend a set of new light truck tires, Michelin or BF Goodrich Commercial T/A are the only two tires I would use. My tire comments will immediatly cause the owners of various ChiComm brands and inferior American brands to pop up with their angry squeals of defense. That is fine, each to his own. I can only offer opinions on my own experience.

Enjoy your Jayco. My kids were raised traveling and camping on truck campers and travel trailers and my daughter (age 45) still speaks fondly of those times. RVing and camping are great activities for young families with children and also for the rest of us who refuse to grow up.

 

[AMink]

My tire comments will immediatly cause the owners of various ChiComm brands and inferior American brands to pop up with their angry squeals of defense. That is fine, each to his own. I can only offer opinions on my own experience.

You certainly won't hear any angry squeals from me. I have lost new ST tires and older ones. I lost one while it sat in my yard, not even on the trailer! The tread separated from the carcass, then a day later the carcass lost pressure. Wouldn't have lasted that long on the road. I'd love to put 16" rims with LT tires on it, but I don't think I have the clearance. I've heard that some of the ST tires are now E rated, but if they're constructed the same way as the D's, it won't matter. My best suggestion to those in my boat is to check your tire pressure every trip, every day. Carry an infrared thermometer and shoot the tires (and bearings) at every stop. I caught one before it let loose and destroyed the side of the trailer recently. Air up to the max stated on the side of the tire. And carry two spares. On a tandem axle trailer, if one tire goes away, the other one catches all the weight and they don't like that. They may not blow immediately, but keep an eye out for the telltale blister. Better yet, just put the second spare on and be done with it.

While driving down the roads in Nevada, I've started watching for trailer tread. A LOT of it appears to be trailer tires, as opposed to semi retreads.

 

[mberry]

I have a set of Goodyear ST tires on our trailer. When I got to camp last Thursday, the rear passenger side was nearly flat. It only had 20PSI in it. Luckily a friend that camped with us had a portable compressor with him. I think if I had gone more than a few more miles, it would have gone completely flat and/or blown out.

As it is, they are weathered and cracked far worse than I thought they were. They are getting replaced as soon as I can find the money for them if I can find an LT tire in the size needed and proper capacity.

 

[Grizzly]

HBarlow:



I purchased a 2004 Jayco Eagle. It has the Dexter frame and axles. Also, when I looked at a brand new Arctic Fox, it had Lippert axles on it. That really surprised me. The trailer I bought meets my needs and budget for now. It is our first trailer and if we really enjoy it as much as I think we do, then I will upgrade to a higher rated trailer.



This trailer was rated 3. 5 stars for value and quality. The downside was the highway control. It is also rated as a snowbird, but we will only be using it for vacationing. Armed with the info from RV Consumer Group, I adjust how I pack it and I empty the tanks before I leave camp when possible.



I also have a CAT scale for truckers close by to check the balance before leaving. I tried to find a used Arctic Fox, but none were available that matched my needs nor priced anywhere close to NADA. New was not within my budget, but maybe in a few years.



Brad

You're wrong on Arctic Fox made with Lippert axles. I have a new 27' 5er with Dexter axles and American frame. In fact Northwood Mfg. makes their own frames in their La Grande, Oregon plant, unless I'm mistaken and Oregon is part of China now. Also on a simular thread a few months ago there was a discussion on Lippert frames and Chinese axles, so I called Northwood Mfg. , since I know some of the Reps, and asked the question. They assured me that they use Dexter axles and make their own 12" I beam frames. I actually went out and measured the frame on my Fox 5er.



GCP, consider getting a new 5er and if you're thinking about an Arctic Fox and would like to see one for yourself, you're welcome to see ours since you live in Albuquerque and there is no Arctic Fox dealer here any longer. I ordered ours out of Idaho. I really don't want to talk you into getting a Fox if that's not what you want because there are other well made 4 star rated units out there and one 5 star.

 

[BBeck]

You're wrong on Arctic Fox made with Lippert axles. I have a new 27' 5er with Dexter axles and American frame. In fact Northwood Mfg. makes their own frames in their La Grande, Oregon plant, unless I'm mistaken and Oregon is part of China now. Also on a simular thread a few months ago there was a discussion on Lippert frames and Chinese axles, so I called Northwood Mfg. , since I know some of the Reps, and asked the question. They assured me that they use Dexter axles and make their own 12" I beam frames. I actually went out and measured the frame on my Fox 5er.



GCP, consider getting a new 5er and if you're thinking about an Arctic Fox and would like to see one for yourself, you're welcome to see ours since you live in Albuquerque and there is no Arctic Fox dealer here any longer. I ordered ours out of Idaho. I really don't want to talk you into getting a Fox if that's not what you want because there are other well made 4 star rated units out there and one 5 star.

I was looking at a TT Arctic Fox and a Nash TT. I believe it was a 27E model. I saw a sticker that said Libbert on the axle. Hopefully I'm wrong it was another trailer on their lot, but it shocked me to see that sticker on the axle which is why I remembered it so well. I also looked at the Nash 26Z2 while I was there.

 

[BBeck]

Brad,



I didn't see your post addressed to me until this morning.



Jayco is one of the brands I would consider for weekend/vacationing use and for a starter trailer. I consider Jayco a good value for the price, not among the top rated manfacturers but a good trailer for the dollar. I pulled a lot of Jaycos and liked them when I was transporting. I witnessed a few dealer delivery inpections and it appeared that they were put together pretty well.



I've never seen or read an RV Consumer report so don't know what the report bases its opinon about highway control on. The rating is probably based on some measure of tongue weight as a percentage of overall weight and some opinion about sway. Perhaps the report also measures braking ability? You didn't specify fifth wheel so I'm assuming you bought a conventional tt?



One thing I would encourage you to address immediately on a 2004 trailer is the tires. If you purchased a lightly used 2004 model it probably still has the OEM tires which are already too old for safety. You can read the DOT code molded into the tire carcass on the inside sidewall of each tire.



When I was pulling Jayco trailers the smaller/lighter tts were equipped with "WillPop" brand ChiComm tires which, imo, were just good enough to make the trip from factory to dealer. If I owned one I would pull it directly from the dealer to a tire store and put a new set of tires on it.



Unfortunately, Jayco conventional tts are equipped with small 13" or 14" wheels. IMO opinion there is no such thing as a good trailer tire and no light truck tires of quality are manufactured in any size smaller than 16". The best you can do, again imo, is a set of Goodyear Marathons and I hate GY tires. If your trailer is a fifth wheel I would strongly recommend a set of new light truck tires, Michelin or BF Goodrich Commercial T/A are the only two tires I would use. My tire comments will immediatly cause the owners of various ChiComm brands and inferior American brands to pop up with their angry squeals of defense. That is fine, each to his own. I can only offer opinions on my own experience.



Enjoy your Jayco. My kids were raised traveling and camping on truck campers and travel trailers and my daughter (age 45) still speaks fondly of those times. RVing and camping are great activities for young families with children and also for the rest of us who refuse to grow up.

I purchased the TT, not a 5th wheel.



The trailer has the original tires. They are a 15in ST rated MAXXIS tire. Tires look nearly new. When I had the certified master tech look at the trailer, including the tires, he said the tires were in excellent shape and he would have no hesitation taking the trailer across the country.



I plan to upgrade next year. Thanks for the recommendations.



The reference to the RV Consumer Group is a non-profit that has been evaluating RVs for 20+ years. RV.org



What they found with this trailer is in regard to balance. Just as you stated, it relates to the tongue weight, but also how well is it balanced with the tanks are full or empty. The available payload is also very low at about 1200 lbs. Again, fine for a vacationing trailer.



Thanks for the recommendations on the tires.



Take care,

Brad

 

[HBarlow]

Brad,

It's none of my business, but I would replace the Maxxis which I consider one of the ChiComm or Korean "willpop" brands, yesterday before I pull the trailer anywhere.

"Certified Master Techs" rarely own and pull a travel trailer. They know a lot about repairing or replacing an RV refrigerator but ... ... . From your description, the "expert" was judging the tires based on appearance, which is not a useful method for evaluating trailer tires. Trailer tires age and weaken from non-use, not from towing mileage. A five year old RV tire that has only been pulled from factory to dealer, from dealer to buyer's lake front property, may even have full depth original tread remaining, but it is almost a certainty that that tire will throw its tread, blow out, and tear the side panel off the trailer when you pull it on a 100 mile trip on hot summer pavement.

The only way to evaluate a trailer tire is to crawl under the trailer and look at the DOT code molded in to the sidewall of each tire. The DOT code is a four digit number followed by the letters "DOT. " The number indicates the week and year the tire was manufactured. In your case the tire may have a DOT code of 2604 which would indicate the tire was molded in the twenty-sixth week of 2004.

Your trailer, your money, your decision.

 

[Grizzly]

Any ST tire is only good for 3 years from the DOT code and limited to 65 mph, not that we need to pull our trailers any faster. I highly recommend that you get rid those China ST tires as soon as you take delivery of your trailer and get good LT American made tires, such as Michelin XPS Rib.

 

[AMink]

I bought my '05 trailer in '05. When the first "new" tire blew and took out the fender skirt and all the insulation in the wheel well, I didn't know about the "date" code. Turns out my tires were manufactured in '02--3 years before I bought the trailer. They had been sitting somewhere, either on a rim and axle set, or off. Please check that code. It sucks that a trailer tire can still have nubs on it and be worthless, but it happens. Very few RV tires, either ST or LT or even the big ones on Class A coaches, wear out on the the road. Sitting around kills them.