Catastrophic Tire Failure.........

[Barry]

Last Tuesday, as a favor to one of the horse trailer dealers I do biz with, we were delivering an '06 Bison 4 horse LQ to the buyer down near Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. . We were then going to cut across the state to Sarasota to pick up an '05 Cato that we bought going to another one of my dealers.

Well, all those plans went out the window when just south of the main toll booth on the Florida Turnpike the right rear tire had a catastrophic failure. We were only doing about 64 mph. It ripped the whole right fender off the unit and slapped black marks 4 feet up the side of the unit. It made a mess. Chi-Com Kung Fu Wilpop(as Uncle Harvey calls them) tires.

Pulled out my trusty Oklahoma trailer jack and changed the tire. Called the dealer and told them what had happened and that we were coming back.

Now here is where the point of this discertation begins: Read carefully.

When you have a catastrophic tire failure, it most always damages the tire next to the one that failed. The surviving tire may look fine but trust me, more times than not, it is a bomb looking for a place to explode.

Upon returning to the dealership, I carefully explained to the young salesman about catastrophic tire failure and that he must buy 2 tires, not just one, and replace the adjacent tire.

Like most salesman, he did not listen. He had the service dept. replace the fender, replace the one tire and scrub the black marks off the side of the unit. He had another truck deliver the unit the next day because I had a prior commitment.

The trailer did not make 100 miles and the other tire blew ripping the new fender off the trailer.

You just cannot fix stupid. You cannot fight stupid and you cannot be stupid for free.

 

[Bill Stockard]

You just cannot fix stupid. You cannot fight stupid and you cannot be stupid for free.

:-laf:-laf:-laf





It seems like I've heard that before... "here's your sign"!:-laf:-laf



I understand your frustration.



Bill

 

[Skydiver]

Barry, not that it will do any good. I hope you called the salesman back for at least a "here's you sign" sign.
Some things in life do not concern people unless they are gasping for their last breath.
If you're headed to the forest, don't run into those trees.
Good info.

 

[HBarlow]

It will not be long before the willpops on the other side of that expensive trailer also blow and tear the other fender off.

What's an okie trailer jack? Is that the wedge device you put under the good tire on the same side and pull the trailer up on to lift the damaged tire?

Or a farm jack similar to an old bumper jack but much stronger and with a large attached base?

 

[Barry]

Skydiver;



Phunny you should ask. The salesman's boss(owner of the dealership) called me the day after all this happened. She mentioned what had happened on the second attempt to deliver the unit. Before she could finish, I told her which tire had blown and why... ... ... ... ... I think she was going to have prayer meeting with her star salesman and the guy in the shop... ... ... .

 

[Barry]

Uncle Harvey,



An "Oklahoma Trailer Jack" is any configuration of blocks that you can pull the surviving tire onto that is high enough to elevate the dead one.



Crawling around in the grass and dirt under a trailer beside a busy highway is not fun or safe.



Steps are:

1) Crack lug nuts loose.



2) Pull or push good wheel and tire up onto the blocks elevating the deceased.



3) Remove lug nuts and change tire. Tighten lug nuts as best you can.



4) Drive off blocks. Tighten lug nuts tight.



This little procedure saves crawling under a unit and fooling with a bottle jack hoping some 18 wheeler does not blow the unit off the jack while you are under there or while in mid stream of changing the tire.



I carry a 2X8 12" long, a 4X4 10" long and a stout 2X4 18" long to drive up on the 4X4 that is centered on the 2X8... ... ...

 

[NIsaacs]

Humm... I am gonna disagree a little. I think the tires were just old or junk. With good quality tires, the flat would not damage the other one. Jeeze, if that trailer was a tandem axle dually, that would mean four new tires.



Nick

 

[Barry]

A picture is worth a thousand words but an example is worth a thousand pictures... ... ... . View attachment 75543





Oklahoma Trailer Jack... ... ... ... ... ..... Patent Pending

 

[Barry]

NIssacs,



I am gonna disagree with you a little... ... ...



When a CTF happens and the tread along with part of the steel belt comes half way off, the force of that tread flailing against the other tire(either forward or behind) is tremendous. It will damage even the best of brands... ...



It is just not worth taking the chance. If nothing else, in the event of a CTF, you have already replaced the dead one with the spare, and assuming the spare was new, when you buy a new tire to replace the damaged one, retire the survivor to the spare rack and place the new one where the survivor was.

 

[AMink]

Humm... I am gonna disagree a little. I think the tires were just old or junk. With good quality tires, the flat would not damage the other one. Jeeze, if that trailer was a tandem axle dually, that would mean four new tires.



Nick

What happens is the other tire on the same side suddenly is carrying far beyond its limit. Basically, if you have two tires carrying 2500# each, the one that didn't pop is now carrying 5000#, or about 1500# over its limit, assuming a "D" rated tire. Also, these were not quality tires. They were Chinese Willpops. A solid LT tire might be able to sustain the sudden weight transfer, but those cheap ST tire just cannot do it. I know this from experience. Twice, at least. I hate ST tires and don't know why they are still on the market.

 

[Barry]

True! STs are a pain... .....



However, I have had CTFs on name brand, load E LTs.



The horse trailer I was pulling was an '06... ... ..... empty LQ... ... ... ... so the bulk of the weight was on the truck... ... ... ... ... and while the Kung Fu's were STs, they were load Es.



I was so frustrated with the whole thing I forgot to take pictures.



In any event, I just wanted to "Share" this bit of information in hopes of saving someone else a lot of grief down the road... ... ... .....

 

[HBarlow]

What happens is the other tire on the same side suddenly is carrying far beyond its limit. Basically, if you have two tires carrying 2500# each, the one that didn't pop is now carrying 5000#, or about 1500# over its limit, assuming a "D" rated tire. Also, these were not quality tires. They were Chinese Willpops. A solid LT tire might be able to sustain the sudden weight transfer, but those cheap ST tire just cannot do it. I know this from experience. Twice, at least. I hate ST tires and don't know why they are still on the market.

I think your theory has merit also. With a blow out or catastrophic tire failure on a heavily loaded cargo trailer or on a typical TT or fifth wheel which is normally at or near GVWR and GAWR the remaining tire on the failure side carries close to twice its rated weight for a brief period. An older tire or a Willpop probably won't survive this stress for long afterward.

I slung a tread off a 1 1/2 year old 16,000 mile OEM Uniroyal Laredo LT LRE on my HH two summers ago on I-40 just east of ABQ. I put the spare on and pulled it home. The following morning when the SAM's Club tire guys began installing a set of four new Michelin XPS Ribs they showed me the second Uniroyal on the same side as the failed tire already had significant tread separation that didn't show while mounted on the trailer.

I have no scientific proof why the second one was failing also but another 100 miles, perhaps less, would have seen that one slinging tread and belts in the fender well and up the side of the trailer also.

 

[HBarlow]

Barry,

Your okie jack is the real deal.

I"ve been postponing purchase of a heavy molded plastic or aluminum Texas jack that works on the same principle but looks much nicer and is less likely to come apart under the wheel when mounting it. SouthWest wheel has carried them for several years at about $40-$45.

The only reason I haven't bought one is I'm afraid that my HH fiver is too heavy on each wheel and tire to safely use it without possibly stressing the other tire on the same side or a spring. 6,000 lbs. is a lot of weight to put on one Michelin XPS or one RV spring.

 

[Barry]

The aggravating thing about a tire failure in not necessarily the tire. We all know they are a time life item. But it is the resulting damage to the unit that is most upsetting.



Uncle Harvey,



I can understand your concern about over stressing the surviving tire. Have used an OTJ for several decades now, has never posed a problem. And in the event of an overstress, I would rather overstress the tire than my body if the unit came off the jack while I was under it.



Tires are cheap but I am one of a kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-laf

 

[CUMMINZ]

One of the reasons why I went to 19. 5s on my DRW. THe extra capacity of these tires will carry my load as a single.

 

[HBarlow]

The aggravating thing about a tire failure in not necessarily the tire. We all know they are a time life item. But it is the resulting damage to the unit that is most upsetting.

Uncle Harvey,

I can understand your concern about over stressing the surviving tire. Have used an OTJ for several decades now, has never posed a problem. And in the event of an overstress, I would rather overstress the tire than my body if the unit came off the jack while I was under it.

Tires are cheap but I am one of a kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-laf

Barry,

Yeah, can't disagree with you. Trying to jack a heavy trailer up with a hydraulic bottle jack is not without risk and is no fun, even in warm dry weather. In the mud or snow its far worse.

 

[fest3er]

I think your theory has merit also. With a blow out or catastrophic tire failure on a heavily loaded cargo trailer or on a typical TT or fifth wheel which is normally at or near GVWR and GAWR the remaining tire on the failure side carries close to twice its rated weight for a brief period. An older tire or a Willpop probably won't survive this stress for long afterward. ...

Don't forget that, at 64 MPH, the separating tread can be moving against (opposite to) the other tire at up to 128MPH. And the tops of the tires are moving at 64 MPH relative to the fender (128 MPH relative to the ground). These are, of course, ballpark figures.



Baseball players wear helmets to protect themselves from 90MPH fastballs. The significantly more massive tread is moving 42% faster; significantly more energy. Recall the pro drag racer who was killed a few years ago when a chunk of tire rubber hit his helmet. If he was moving 200MPH, that rubber hit him at 200MPH; it could've hit a bystander at 400 MPH if it separated right at the top of the tire.

 

[Barry]

Ah so... ... ... ... ... ... ... kinda like the wind. While you cannot see wind, you can see the effects of wind. And while I did not see the explosion, I certainly saw the effects of it... ... ... ... .



Thanx for the mathematical lesson!!





Red neck response would be; Hey Bubba, we in trouble!

 

[GCroyle]

Barry,



Another message about the fragile nature of trailer tires when they have been compromised.



Looks like the only sure thing is be overcautious and assume the worst is just around the curve ahead.



I lost 3 Goodyear Marathons ST series on a new to me TT that were built in mid '06 that blew the tread belts but did not go boom. They were fine when I left the house and less than 100 miles later, 3 tires bulging at the tread. The 4th tire was previously replaced. I put 4 new tires on the TT. I did not have it overloaded and the tires were 65psi.

 

[Barry]

Gary,



Did you say those were "Good For a Year" tires?