Intake modification

[GHarman]

I posted about a snorkle in the past. Have been on bunny trails this last year! Anyway, a different approach came to mind as I have seen a few (New ferds) with the side fender cold air intake. I looked at the '93 and there seems to be quite enough room to plumb an air duct from the fender( through hole required, of course), opposite the passenger side hood hinge, up to the air filter box. Any thoughts? GregH

 

[cerberusiam]

Right back of the air box in the fender would be a better place, it shortens the path and potential heating.



I often thought about doing that if one could find a cover and can that would fit from a medium duty truck. My biggest concern is the potential for creating a partial vacuum or pressure drop in that inlet due to the air going by on the outside.



Not sure its a valid concern and not sure how to prove\disprove it either.



So I continue to struggle thru with the gaping hole in the rad support and AH 19037 behind the headlight. Seems to work great so far.

 

[Hertlein]

I have a 1991 5. 9 L in a Dodge D350 1 ton dually. I notice that the inlet to the air filter has a very small opening from outside air. I was inquiring at a salvage dealer about installing an air filter housing from a newer model that has a much larger opening. I was informed that restriction needs to be there. He said if you changed to a larger cleaner you will blow the engine. Is this true? I feel this restriction puts extra strain on the turbo.

 

[cerberusiam]

I was inquiring at a salvage dealer about installing an air filter housing from a newer model that has a much larger opening. I was informed that restriction needs to be there. He said if you changed to a larger cleaner you will blow the engine. .

Thats the reason he works in a salvage yard, tearing things apart. He doesn't have a clue how things work.



The air boxes themselves are restrictive unless you drill more holes in them. Spending money on something that needs help is just not worth it. A Fleetguard AH19037 filter will fit the torque tube and give you more air than is needed for about anything. Add an OuterWears prefilter to it and will fit nicely in the space the stock box sat.



Mount it with a custom mount or just rig a bungy strap to hold it.

 

[GHarman]

I took my stock air box and cut away the unnecessary enclosure, leaving only the filter attachment extension and threaded rod and the outboard end support. A free floating filter lying on the fender with nothing holding it 'cept a clamp wont do on our rough roads.

Cerberusiam, The intake position, you mentioned, through the outside fender, is exactly what I was thinking about. It is directly to the right of the shotgun side, hood hinge pivot.

I wonder if the ford intake would fit on the fender without to much sheetmetal bangin'. It could be hard plumbed with a new air box and some strategically placed water drain holes. Just thinking! GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

I've got an old air intake box off an 875 Versatile I've played with several times. The biggest problem is when it rains. It really picks up the water. A snorkel would really be nice, especially how I like to find trouble... But running the air has always been a problem. I've even considered running a PVC pipe back and up behind the cab. It would be water tight enough, and a 4-5" line shouldn't restrict air too bad. It's the 8-10feet of turns and such that I've always wondered if it would work. A plumbers collars(FernCo) and it could easilly be sealed to the air box. That might even work going straight to the turbo, and putting the filter box in the bed. And it would have to run on the outside of the frame, as the exhaust is on the inside... . Lots of ideas, not enough time and trucks... . Ok, not enough time... ...

 

[GHarman]

Right now I am using an old license plate as a water deflector above the filter. 'Course, we dont get the volume of rain that you do down Texas way. Thats one reason to use the plumbing and control the routing of the air, as opposed to a free-for-all open filter. That may work fine on a race track, however, for every day, every weather condition, not so good unless you can afford a new air filter after each toad strangler:-laf. GregH

PS. Some rules of (thumb) plumbing do apply to fluid flow. A 90* elbow is equal in flow resistance to a 10' run of pipe. The fewer the bends and the shorter the run the less restriction.

I understand the time constraints! Same here!

 

[HHhuntitall]

As far as restrictions, I was just thinking on that. We use two air filters on our haul trucks, Pete and KW. They use about an 8" piped Y from both air filters to the turbo intake, and that's on a C-15 and a 3406 Caterpiller engine, both around 916CI. Why couldn't a 5 or 6" pipe be used back to the bed, with a reducer in front of the turbo on our 359CI engines? FernCo makes a 4-6" drainage and waste coupler don't they? Dang, now I'm gonna be thinking about this all week..... a Drainage and Waste elbow would have more sweep to it... . the vacuum guage needs to go in front of the turbo..... this is already getting interesting... ... PVC is vulnerable on the outside of the frame, though... ... can't go inside the frame on the passenger side, and it's all still got to move with the engine some..... this is gonna keep me up tonight... . thanks... :-laf ... ... i think...

 

[GHarman]

How about some aluminum irrigation pipe and silicone hose and elbows from the mfgr of the "cool hose"? GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

Aluminum irrigation hose would still be vulnerable, but would take a bend and not break. a little silicone on clamped hose ends to ensure no leakage. And I may have some 6" line laying in a field. Still, the cast ends and elbows are a might heavy, although much more machinable... . hmmm... . I'm still leaning towards the PVC as the fittings would be lightweight and glueable, so no guessing if they're leaking or not. OH, and cheaper.....

 

[GHarman]

Yep, that aluminum irrigation pipe can be expensive, but less likely to crack than PVC. Aluminum can also be welded, making an absolutely air tight fit. If you built a solid section, mounted to the frame up to the engine compartment? A nice smooth transition to the air filter box with the silicone hose? GregH

 

[JDancoe]

Are we talking about intake restriction, or getting cool air to the turbo?

I've got two 92 diesels running minor mods to the pumps & timing, and a K&N filter in each. Both have restriction gauges (between the filter and the turbo inlet) to tell me when the filters need service, and frankly, I'm not seeing any restriction until the filters get really dirty. Jack Dancoe

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, JDancoe, we are talking about all that. Mostly moving the air intake to the bed of the truck, or at least up to windshield or higher level. I, personally, have access to agricultural air intake systems, such as off a Versatile 875 tractor, which has a dirt trap at the top, followed by a long tube down to the filter box, which has two filters; one 12" in diameter, 16" long, and an inner filter 7. 5"s in diameter, around the same length. I think the wix # is 42226 and 42225. They air 855CI Cummins engines up to 310BHP. I think they would have more than enough flow for the 5. 9. And then plumbing that box through the bed, down under the cab, and up to the engine compartment. The aluminum pip is weldable, even bendable like exhaust tubing, which might even be an option in stainless... ... anyone got a 5" exhaust tubing bender? I have a wire welder for that, too..... As far as K&N, you can do that to your truck, it's yours, but I won't kill one of mine that way. I can show you pistons that look like they've been bead blasted, and valves that look like they've been ground on with a dremel tool. I'm off-road wayyy too much to use any K&N, AFE, or other type filters. I currently use a dry paper, Wix 54223, I think, to air my moderate 350-400HP(SAE) engines. If you want to test your filter, try smearing a small strip of grease inside your air intake hose, and check it when you change the oil. I think that'll show you what's getting past your filter.



Anyway, the tractor air box should be airtight, and could be made so certainly with a little silicone under the lid and threads. How good is that exhaust wrap on a turbo? It's gonna have to be shielded from heat when it gets up to the engine compartment, I think... ... Hmmm, how restrictive is 5" going to 4" intake on the turbo? I think a slow 90 at the bottom of the bed going forward, then a slight... what? 25-30degree up the firewall? and then about 160 to the turbo inlet..... I don't like that, but how restrictive is it? I think the filter box is too large to go in the engine bay. And with that, you still have the issue of keeping water out... . a snorkel through the hood is ok, but not road legal in TX..... am I way off base here, Harman? I'm really liking the exhaust tubing idea... . fairly lightweight for durability, readily available material, and easily handled, if I had a tubing bender with large enough dies. .

 

[CToney]

HH do you still run your versatile. We have an 835 with a FASS and the dual fuel line added to the front of the head. Must of added enough power to equal an 875 now need bigger rad. We dropped a full gear pulling our air drill.

 

[GHarman]

HHhuntitall, That exhaust tube should be the ticket! I would imagine that a truck exhaust dealer/fabricator could do the long sweep mandrel bends for you! GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

CToney, I've got several tractors, an 875 and 835 in the earlier models, an 856 with super singles for my 45' GreatPlains 3SFs, two 876s, one that runs with the 875, a 946 I use at my headquaters, a 9482 I use at my largest operation, along with a 9682. The 856 with singles is easily loaded and hauled, and I either have a drill where I'm going, or take a 30' 2SF drill with me on a pickup. The 835 is pretty new to me, I just got it, put new tires on it, worked over the injection system, run the overhead, and am going to put it to work as soon as we get some rain. The 835 and 875 I have, both have the same radiator as my neighbors 895. My 875 has a new pump on it, and it turned up to about 310, which is as hot as I'd go on those models, as the air intake temp gets too high without the watered intake or air intercooling. I don't know how the 835 pulls, yet. The New Hollands are great machines, the 9482 has the M11, and the 9682 has the N14. They're both under 2000 hours, so no real test of time, yet. I've looked at the air seeders, and the rough gound I cover, I haven't been sold on one yet. Maybe in the future.



Greg, my only problem is the local exhaust shops don't have any 5" dies to form the 5". They've got 4". And I could trade some diesel work for the labor, so not much cost in it. I'm afraid 4" would be too small. Maybe on the older 1st gens, if they're not very hot.....

 

[GHarman]

CToney, I've got several tractors, an 875 and 835 in the earlier models, an 856 with super singles for my 45' GreatPlains 3SFs, two 876s, one that runs with the 875, a 946 I use at my headquaters, a 9482 I use at my largest operation, along with a 9682. The 856 with singles is easily loaded and hauled, and I either have a drill where I'm going, or take a 30' 2SF drill with me on a pickup. The 835 is pretty new to me, I just got it, put new tires on it, worked over the injection system, run the overhead, and am going to put it to work as soon as we get some rain. The 835 and 875 I have, both have the same radiator as my neighbors 895. My 875 has a new pump on it, and it turned up to about 310, which is as hot as I'd go on those models, as the air intake temp gets too high without the watered intake or air intercooling. I don't know how the 835 pulls, yet. The New Hollands are great machines, the 9482 has the M11, and the 9682 has the N14. They're both under 2000 hours, so no real test of time, yet. I've looked at the air seeders, and the rough gound I cover, I haven't been sold on one yet. Maybe in the future.



Greg, my only problem is the local exhaust shops don't have any 5" dies to form the 5". They've got 4". And I could trade some diesel work for the labor, so not much cost in it. I'm afraid 4" would be too small. Maybe on the older 1st gens, if they're not very hot.....

Only with a short run of pipe, to the fender, maybe along with the existing snout on the air box. A long run would not have enough flow. 6" would be better, if you have room. GregH

 

[tugboatphil]

Greg, until I got an AFE filter and tube I was doing the same deal with just the base plate to attach my BHF. I attached a strip of roof flashing along the edge of the fenderwell, where the hood rests when closed. I bent channels into it for water run off. But before I'd done that I drove in some rain and really never had a big problem with moisture on the filter.