Recaps?????????????

[Barry]

I have not fooled with re-caps since the early 80s. Never liked them. With that said, I am told that with the new Technology that has been developed in the field of re-capping, they are a viable alternative... ... ...



I am running Rickson 19. 5s... ... ... .



How much experience does everyone/anyone have with good quality re-caps? I do not think I am brave enough to run them on the front but might consider running them on the back.



Who is your favorite re-tread supplier and why?





Can I run heavy... ... ... not to exceed the limits of the casing, but I do get close.



Thanx in advance.

 

[gathomas]

Retreading tires correctly boils down to one issue.....

"QUALITY CONTROL"

if Quality Control is compromised at any level of the Retreading process, potential for Failure will result.

My family was in this business for a long time, therefore I can speak with confidence with this subject.
As to "New Technology" I cannot speak to because I've been away from this business for a number of years. Do your homework, you might find a "QUALITY" product.

 

[jgillott]

They run recaps on the rear of our medium dutys at work. For the most part they are fine. Every once in a while, there will be a tread separation, but that certainly isn't the norm. I would guess that wear mileage is probably half of a new tire.

 

[HBarlow]

Jim Jelag has posted many times that when he ran a small fleet of light trucks with employee drivers pulling heavy trailers he always used new tires on the fronts and (I think) Bandag recaps on the rears. All were drw and he has said he always ran each truck at least 500k miles before he traded the truck. He said he got very good reliablility and wear out of them.

More than ten years ago I visited the local Lubbock Bandag dealer and asked about running Bandag retreads on the rear axle of my then Furd F-250. The company spokesman recommended against it. I was surprised. Perhaps the technology or results have improved since then.

If Michelin made XPS Ribs in 17" sizes I would consider recapping the grooved steer tires and running them on the back of my C&C with a drive axle tread pattern. I like the ordinary Michelins I use now but am not sure I would want to recap them. They are not an all steel casing.

 

[Barry]

Uncle Harvey,



That is kind of the idea I had... ... ... ... but I thought I would have my casings done... ... ... ... ..... virgin rubber.



I just don't know about reliability on a SRW 3500... ... ... ... I like the 22/32 depth of tread. And I am very mindful of tire pressures. I run 80 empty or lightly loaded. But if I am heavy, I run 100# cold... ... ... ... . after they warm up, they are at 115 on a normal day.



About the heaviest I will run is 7500 to 8000# on the drive axle.

 

[HBarlow]

Barry,

I think I'd be inclined to try Bandag recaps on the drive tires considering you are using 19. 5" tires. Your tires are real truck tires with stiff sidewalls that won't allow much flex and would reduce the likelihood of slinging a tread due to heat.

The 17" Michelins which I believe are the best that I can buy for my application, show a good bit of sidewall bulge at full inflation pressure. They are not stiff all steel casings like the XPS Rib tires offered in 16" sizes.

Why don't you pm Jelag and ask his opinion. He has apparently run Bandag recaps for hundreds of thousands of miles and believes in them.

 

[CDonaldson]

UPS runs traction Bandag retreads on the rears of their trucks. I asked my UPS guy about them, he has never had any problems, no blowouts, no seperations, gets really good lifespan.



You cannot run retreads on the front, DOT says NO-NO, and a fine to go with them on 19. 5's





There are a couple companies that have excellent reputations, Bandag and Treadwright.





CD

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

I ran a fleet of ~200 semitrailers, many with Bandag 22. 5 caps. Due to the non-centralized nature of my fleet, and the fact that they were pulled by contracted drivers, not my own people, I did not run a "scientific" tire program, but I'd say my recaps were damn near as reliable as new tires. Sorry for the anecdotal evidence, and no 19. 5 recap experience. I never ran 16" recaps and had very few 19. 5" trucks.

 

[HBarlow]

This thread has got me thinking. I believe I'll stop by the Bandag recapper one day before long and ask them their opinion on using their recaps on my virgin Michelin drive tires when this set of Michelins needs replacement.

Slinging a cap could cause damage but not as big a problem under my CM flatbed with storage boxes as it would be under a $1000 dually fender extension on a pickup.

 

[mwilson]

We are currently running a cap shop and the most important thing is the condition of the casing.

If the donor casing has been under-inflated for an extended period then the chances are it will not last under the first cap.

It happens a lot on dual set-ups as one tire can be low 20lbs. or so and will not be obvious unless checked with a gauge.

Under-inflation causes excessive flexing of the sidewall which will break some of the steel over time.



It results in what is known as a "Zipper" failure. So named because it sounds like a giant zipper noise when it sidewall begins to let go at 95lbs or so. I have witnessed 2 in my career, one when air was being added to an inner low tire still on the truck (guy was kneeled in front of the outer dual with the inflator so the blast went around him, thank God) and the second failure was in our tire cage during air-up. That one ripped the bolts out of the cement that held the cage in place and walked the cage about 10 feet across the tire bay floor. That will wake you up... ...



Where you have your own casings and have taken care of them the odds are high that you will have good luck with caps. If you want the very best, then find a retreader that has an X-Ray machine that checks the casing for broken steel during the prep process. Most Bandag dealers have these now I believe. They will also check for old repairs and tiny punctures as the tire is ground down that allow water into the layers of steel under the tread that cause rust and failure.



A study was done several years ago where the researchers stopped for every failed pile of rubber found beside the highway and discovered that most tire failures are not caps, but virgin rubber. Under-inflation was the primary cause, followed by road hazards. Kind of interesting as the first thing you think when you see a pile of tread in the lane is cap failure... . :-laf



Wilson.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks Mike. Your post was mostly new information to me.

I had never heard of the tire X ray process and had always wrongly assumed that road alligators were retreads.

 

[Barry]

Not only am I encouraged, I'm impressed... ... ... ... .



Wonder what my local Bandag processor will charge me to recap my casings?

 

[mwilson]

Various manufacturers have come up with several ideas to combat the under-inflation issue and prolong tire/casing life.



Link-Mate / Cats Eye offer a monitoring system that consists of two hoses, one for inner and one for outer that are attached to an eye that is mounted to one of the axle or hub cover bolts. It is simply a visual device that is shows yellow when the correct pressure is maintained in both tires, then will start showing black if pressure has dropped.

Does two things, #1 is keeping both tires at the same pressure and #2 is a simple visual alert when air is needed.

You can buy these set to any pressure desired, I sell quite a few of them and they are not just for big trucks, some motor home owners have had good luck with them as well.



I would think some of you dually guys might benefit from the Cats Eye as well.



If you start watching semi-trailers you will see some that now have auto inflate capabilites. The hoses for inflation will come out of the center of the hubcap and then attach to the valve stems. The axles are hollow by nature so was very easy to make them carry air. A small computer/valve monitors all pressure in the axles and allows air from the trailers existing system to flow in the tires as needed. They developed a reliable hub cover to seal and transfer the air pressure through the coupler. Big fleets are speccing this system now. Increases tire life and will also alert driver when system is adding air too frequently.



I see that they have added a Therm-Alert option to warn of a hot wheel, looks like a thermal plug that melts when heated to a preset temperature to create an air leak that sets off the warning lights. Clever, Verrrrrry Clever!!

That very thing is used in Horton Fan Clutches to melt if slipping begins, thereby engaging the fan until repairs can be made.



Let me see if I can find the links if anyone is curious.....



Cats Eye is Link - Cat's Eye, Tire Pressure Maintenance System



Meritor Auto Inflate is ArvinMeritor - Products & Services - Trailer - Meritor® Tire Inflation System by P. S. I. (MTIS)

 

[mwilson]

Not only am I encouraged, I'm impressed... ... ... ... .



Wonder what my local Bandag processor will charge me to recap my casings?

I will ask the tire department tomorrow what a typical 19. 5 cap would run just to give you some idea.



Wilson.

 

[mwilson]

Something else that I just thought of,



You that run 19. 5 tires are running truck tires and if you are going to run caps you should be aware of the following.....



1) If at all possible get you own casings retreaded. You wll either have to put a couple spares on or tie the truck up for a couple of days while yours are being capped.



2) If you can't tie the truck up then they will have stock casings capped and ready to sell. Insist on a first cap. Truck tires are capped two or three times so if you don't specify you may not get a 1st timer. Every time that a tire is capped it has to be branded by law to show show where and when it was capped. If you start looking at any trucks with caps you will soon see what I mean. Typical truck owners will run 1st caps on drives, 2nd caps on the trailer and 3rd caps wind up on local equipment such as dump trucks, spares etc. Should keep a 3rd timer close to home... ... ... :-laf



I know that this a Dodge Truck forum but when guys are running big truck rubber I want to help you all understand what goes on in the truck tire world.



Wilson.

 

[NIsaacs]

mwilson has good info and fits my experience with recaps on log trucks. On a big truck and when you run multiple trucks they can save a lot of money. The key like he said is the condition of the casing. It does not need to be an all steel belted case, non radial works just as well. In our application we would go through two sets of drive tires per year. This was mostly off highway with slower speeds but very heavy loads and steep grades.



It has been 15 years since I was in the business, however at the time the price was about 1/3 the cost of new, if you furnished the casing. On a personal truck with low miles traveled I would think the savings would be small. Keeping in mind the age of the casing, it might take 4 or 5 years for some people to wear out a set of tires.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

Mike, what would a Cat's Eye system for a Dodge dually cost?

 

[mwilson]

Cost to cap a 19. 5 tire is roughly $110. 00.



That will vary a little depending on your location and tread rubber selection, but close enough to get you started.



Wilson.

 

[mwilson]

Mike, what would a Cat's Eye system for a Dodge dually cost?

Good Morning Harvey,



Just checked to get you an idea, used 80lb. setting as a test part number,

they are offered in 5lb. increments.



LML 6080-AA00 $128. 32. (This is per pair)

The above has rubber hoses



LML 6080-AB00 $152. 99 (This is per pair)

The above has stainless steel braided hoses. (My preference)



I can only find pricing for 16" hoses but they do offer 12" instead. I would have to give them a call to get the proper part number.



I think a 12" hose would be plenty on a one-ton.

Harvey, if you get a minute today put a tape measure to it and see if the 12" would be okay.



If it saved even one tire you have your money back in my opinion. They are not too pretty to look at but do an important job helping with tire life.



Mike.

 

[CDonaldson]

Those Cat's Eyes just might be the Cat's Meow . . I'd be interested in a set too, in the stainless hose, just need to determine if the 12"s is right. The install instructions look pretty straight forward . .





CD





mwilson . . you ought to consider a group buy?? I bet there would be several people interested in them . .