Dodge gets slammed in Diesel Power Mag!

[DBoyd]

In the Feb 2011 issue of Diesel Power, they were conducting a King of the Hill competition and Dodge wasn't invited because the Ram doesn't have enough towing capacity. They surmise the reason is the auto transmission not being stout enough in the Dodge. This is in the Direct Injection column written by David Kennedy.

Just wondered if anyone else saw this.

 

[ILIANBG]

I did read it. The Ram 3500 DRW was not even there because was not rated to pull that much weight.

Unfortunately, for legal purposes, you have to go by the manufacturer's ratings. So the only 3500 duallies were Ford and Chevy

Seems both the Chevy and the Ford did great pulling the big weight up that big grade.

I think the trailers weight was 18900 lbs. Impressive mpgs too.

What do you guys think? It's sad not to see the Ram there. They did write the the only possible reason was the transmission not being able to handle more power/torque. I guess we'll see what Dodge comes up with. I still will be driving my Dodge- it does all that I need.

Ilian

 

[DBoyd]

I thought it was a good article or column. It did go into the history of the transmissions in the Dodges along with a wish list that Dodge should consider.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Who has the largest advertisement display in the magazine? Dodge, Ford, or GM? Usually the advertiser who buys the largest block of ads, gets the best write up. Ads are much more profitable than subscriptions for these "slick" magazines.



Bill

 

[CTaylor]

Who has the largest advertisement display in the magazine? Dodge, Ford, or GM? Usually the advertiser who buys the largest block of ads, gets the best write up. Ads are much more profitable than subscriptions for these "slick" magazines.



Bill

Very true. They did acknowledge the fact that we all see Cummins Dodges pulling 33000 lbs down the freeway on a regular basis but because Dodge doesnt rate it that high their you go.

 

[AClayton]

I read that article and I personally think it's a gimmick! If they truely wanted to test the big three's latest trucks and be within the GCWR, why didn't they just drop the overall trailer weight down and include the Dodge. That would have been something to write about. I personally have not been fortunate enough to own the new 6spd auto but I sure can relate to the fact that Dodge's older auto's were awful. I honestly think the magazine was speculating regarding the Dodge's weight rating... ... ... I personally don't feel the transmission is the weak link. I believe the Dodge is rated modestly and maybe a little bit more realistically when considering the other two.



It has been proven over and over that our trucks can be overloaded and still survive for many thousands of miles. Time will tell how the other trucks will hold up pulling that much weight. Maybe the ultimate test would be to put 200,000 miles on all three trucks and THEN do the tow-test up that hill.





Alan

 

[Bill Stockard]

It has been proven over and over that our trucks can be overloaded and still survive for many thousands of miles. Time will tell how the other trucks will hold up pulling that much weight. Maybe the ultimate test would be to put 200,000 miles on all three trucks and THEN do the tow-test up that hill.

Alan

Better still... tow test all three brand trucks up that hill for 50,000 miles and see which truck is still running without a breakdown.



Bill

 

[Simplysmn]

Maybe they didn't want Dodge there cause in the real world Dodge will spank them both and they didn't want to get shown up Because we all know a large portion of the hot shotter's and trailer puller's are Dodge truck's because everyone know's that most the time when you see a ford or chevy it's sitting on the shoulder of the road Broke Down

 

[EGroeneveld]

I have mixed feelings about this.



First, in some ways I don't care. My 2011 3500 does the job I need it do just fine.



On the other hand:



Second, Dodge/Ram is shotting themselves in the foot by not keeping up with Ford and GM on power and ratings for those individuals who buy based on braging rights or they actually do have a 18K toyhauler that Dodge/Ram says is to big for the Ram to pull. Some of us prefer to stick within the ratings. Of coarse maybe Dodge has run the calculations that getting the ratings high enough to match would cost to much, be to much warranty costs etc... maybe they decided based on facts that the braging rights is not worth it. And really I look at all my friends with trucks and I have the heaviest trailers at 14k. Lots of them have trailers in the under 8K weight. They don't need a 21K tow rating.



Can you imagine the warranty costs if GM or Ford screw up and people start having trouble with motors or trannys because they are towing 18,000 every day in tough conditions?



Just my thoughts,

 

[mwilson]

Better still... tow test all three brand trucks up that hill for 50,000 miles and see which truck is still running without a breakdown.



Bill

That would certainly be a much more truthful test because we all know which one would still be pulling steadily with no issues and also not completely broken in yet at 50,000 miles... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... :-laf



Test them again at 100,000 miles and see the Cummins do its thing!!!!

 

[DBoyd]

According to Trailer Life magazine, the manufacturers are signing up to have the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) set up equal parameters to test each vehicle and set the GCWR, GVW etc. That will get everyone on the same playing field. Toyota has already signed up and ended up haveing to reduce their tow ratings.

And regarding the current GCWR's, if one pulls more than the truck is rated and piles up on the hiway, due to your fault, my fault, nobody's fault, then the insurance company will forget they know you and you will probably get a visit from the police and/or the attorneys for the other party with a whale of a big lawsuit.

In other words, pull the heavy over rated loads at your own risk.

 

[BIGNASTY]

The funny part of this is when you talk to a Chevy or Ford guy about diesel topic's they both compare their Chevy or Ford to the Dodge. When I was out to buy a truck I looked at all three the Chevy was a better built truck in MY Opinion but the Motor was bit of a problem for me, Chevy's trans is somewhat better but I have heard the Allison isnt what it's cracked up to be (its not the trans of the Class 8 trucks) and it has its own issues. Ford well we dont even have to talk about the 04 year ford its a RPS. My inlaw has a Ford and thought the world of it, my truck was in his way to get his out to run to town I gave him the keys to my Dodge. When he came back form town all he could talk about was the Dodge. I went home and my Bro-in-law called and said his dad took the Ford in and got a Dodge.

And this is a man that has ALLWAYS had Ford's

 

[JMetzger]

The new Ford does not impress me. My 02 does a good job doing what I want so I will stay with it. Dodge should look to more power or as some have said maybe Dodge is smarter then Ford or Chevy & will have less break downs.

 

[craiggo]

I read it too. I get why they didn't test the Dodge... by law it would be illegal. However, how is this any different that doing testing on a DPF delete? Maybe b/c they are not running them on the street. Bottom line is (as stated previously) Dodge is screwing themselves as the 6. 7 can easily compete with these two trucks. What I'd like to see (just for the helluvit) is the 6. 7 with the Aisin (not the de-tuned C&C) with Urea and less smog. Just to see how well they compare.

My 2010 does just fine for what I need and I'm nod adding any urea.

 

[AWeiman]

I thought it was a good article or column. It did go into the history of the transmissions in the Dodges along with a wish list that Dodge should consider.

i agree i felt that the purpose of the article was not to say the dodge was inferior but that it would be good for business to step up the power a little. he admits that the cummins is probably more stout of a motor than the other two. i have been a subscriber of there mag for a few years now and i know they do there best to be impartial but if you read carefully they have admitted more than once recently that the undrated and underpowered dodge is the best suited tow rig of the three. sometimes as ctd owners and especially as tdr members we forget there are probably a lot of buyers out there that do look at hp and weight numbers and think that the truck with the highest numbers is best suited for the job. i know i am not the only one that if i was to purchase a new truck i would just go order a dodge, would never consider anything else. but like i said not everyone is that way.

p. s. didnt realize dodge almost used the allison.

 

[EGroeneveld]

I read it too. I get why they didn't test the Dodge... by law it would be illegal. However, how is this any different that doing testing on a DPF delete? Maybe b/c they are not running them on the street. Bottom line is (as stated previously) Dodge is screwing themselves as the 6. 7 can easily compete with these two trucks. What I'd like to see (just for the helluvit) is the 6. 7 with the Aisin (not the de-tuned C&C) with Urea and less smog. Just to see how well they compare.



My 2010 does just fine for what I need and I'm nod adding any urea.

Actually most states would not consider what the GVW or GCVW is as long as you pay the license for the total weight. I'm running 'T' plates in Oregon for 26,000 pounds for Personal use trailers being over 8k rated (non RV). The state could care less about the manufacturing ratings.



I would love TDR to grab a 2011 Dodge and redo the test with the same type of trailer with the same weight on it. As long as someone is driving with a CDL (remember the TDR Magazine is Commercial) and the truck is tagged or licensed for the weight should be no reason not to do it.

 

[HBarlow]

According to Trailer Life magazine, the manufacturers are signing up to have the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) set up equal parameters to test each vehicle and set the GCWR, GVW etc. That will get everyone on the same playing field. Toyota has already signed up and ended up haveing to reduce their tow ratings.
And regarding the current GCWR's, if one pulls more than the truck is rated and piles up on the hiway, due to your fault, my fault, nobody's fault, then the insurance company will forget they know you and you will probably get a visit from the police and/or the attorneys for the other party with a whale of a big lawsuit.
In other words, pull the heavy over rated loads at your own risk.

Sorry DBoyd, but not a single word of that second paragraph is accurate or true. Are you a commissioned internet weight police officer?

Your insurance company has a contract with you that is binding and enforceable. If you have an accident pulling a fifth wheel trailer that is several thosand pounds over GCWR and anyone cares, your insurance company would pay for damages as required and MIGHT possibly cancel your policy or choose to non-renew at the end of the policy term. I have been an insurance adjuster. Insurance companies don't cancel policies before paying except in extreme cases where the insured has deliberately committed fraud or violated specified clauses in the insurance policy. Even in those cases the insurance company normally pays then cancels to avoid lawsuits and bad publicity.

DOT officers don't know or care a whit what the manufacturer's rated towing weight is. What they do care about are gross vehicle weights and gross axle weights. Those are enforceable numbers. If you are caught over GVWR or GAWR you can and probably will be cited for a violation.

You will never find any reference to manufacturer's gross combined weights or manufacturer's towing weights in any federal or state DOT commercial vehicle codes. If GCWRs were considered important and enforceable by DOT codes they would be required to be posted on the door post of our trucks just like GVWR and GAWRs.

Can you offer facts about any lawsuit in any court in America where anyone has been cited for exceeding the gross combined weight rating of their truck?

My previous '01 and '06 Dodge Rams were each licensed by the State of Texas at 26,000 lbs. The GVWR of the '01 was 10,500 and the '06 was 11,500. The GCWR of the '01 was, IIRC, 21,000 lbs. and the '06, again IIRC, was 23,000 lbs. I was completely legal and was inspected by DOT officers in several states several times towing heavy trailers.

 

[CUMMINZ]

The weight police are just like a bunch of girls from "Hooters". .



It is looks that count. The looks of your rig to a weight man will come closer to him pulling you than anything. :-laf

 

[HBarlow]

That's true. Sometimes the way a rig looks will grab the attention of a DOT cop.

A heavy kingpin load on a Class II (3/4 ton) truck causing the rear end to sag is a good example of a rig that might be noticed whereas if it had airbags and was level it might not.

 

[TulsaOkie]

In Tulsa, theres a dealership bragging about how much better GM is to Ford, but they sure made the point that Dodge wasnt even invited. Driving a 07 megacab with 349,000 today, the 2011 is in the driveway. I'll take on their challenge.