What is my gross combined vehicle weight rating?

[Bill Stockard]

All true and accurate.



Taking Bill's statement a step farther, many (most?) Texas light truck owners are registered for insufficient weight to load their 3/4 or dually pickup to gross vehicle weight. They are blissfully unaware that the title clerk in the dealership that sold them the truck and the court house clerk that registered it were clueless and although they saved him a few dollars, they left him vulnerable to a ticket if he ever gets pulled onto a roadside weigh scale during a DPS campaign.

I've registered my vehicles (pickups and SUVs) this way for 40+ years and I have been over the reigstered weight for all that time. I've never been weighed or been through a weigh station traveling with my RVs... . I guess I'm lucky, and so far, money ahead.



Bill

 

[AH64ID]

All true and accurate.



Taking Bill's statement a step farther, many (most?) Texas light truck owners are registered for insufficient weight to load their 3/4 or dually pickup to gross vehicle weight. They are blissfully unaware that the title clerk in the dealership that sold them the truck and the court house clerk that registered it were clueless and although they saved him a few dollars, they left him vulnerable to a ticket if he ever gets pulled onto a roadside weigh scale during a DPS campaign.

Same in Idaho. I had my truck for 2 years before I found out there were different weights. It's not in print and the clerks don't ask you. When I called and asked why it's not public knowledge they told me that its not their job to know what a vehicle weighs. That's fine, but they should know that a 2500/3500 truck might be used for towing/hauling and should ask what weight we want to register for.

 

[LBARTLETT]

Same in Idaho. I had my truck for 2 years before I found out there were different weights. It's not in print and the clerks don't ask you. When I called and asked why it's not public knowledge they told me that its not their job to know what a vehicle weighs. That's fine, but they should know that a 2500/3500 truck might be used for towing/hauling and should ask what weight we want to register for.

you are asking alot out of a public employee aren't you :-laf

 

[AH64ID]

Yeah yeah!

 

[HBarlow]

Same in Idaho. I had my truck for 2 years before I found out there were different weights. It's not in print and the clerks don't ask you. When I called and asked why it's not public knowledge they told me that its not their job to know what a vehicle weighs. That's fine, but they should know that a 2500/3500 truck might be used for towing/hauling and should ask what weight we want to register for.

That's common. From their point of view they're not paid to know anything or provide service, just to tolerate all the annoying citizens who come through their doors to disturb their breaks.

I had to argue with a dealership title clerk when I bought the '06 for the purpose of transporting. I finally had to be rude and tell her, "don't argue with me, just do what I'm telling you to do or you'll cancel a sale. "

 

[Rockranch]

My present truck is licensed for GVWR of 12,500#. My fifth wheel is also registered for its own GVWR of 14,500. I own both and must pay registration fees on each separately.



My previous trucks were registered for 26,000k because at the time I was hauling new RV trailers for hire. New trailers from manufacturer to dealer have no registration, only temporary transporter plate issued by the transport company I was leased to for the duration of the delivery. The transporter plate does not provide for weight fees which must be paid so the way it is done is to register the truck for the total gross combined weight anticipated.



Weight fees and registration methods vary a little between states. In Texas we pay registration fees for trailers based on their weight and also the truck.

Harvey,

Thank you for the clarification. Hauling trailers, as you were, it makes more sense to me as to why you would license the truck for 26K. My current flatbed is licensed for 14K. I am not sure what the truck is licensed for, but I guess I should make sure it is set for 11,500.



If my memory serves, in a previous post you mentioned that you gave up your CDL. I guess that with your current set up, you are running with a Class A non-CDL?

 

[Rockranch]

I had to argue with a dealership title clerk when I bought the '06 for the purpose of transporting. I finally had to be rude and tell her, "don't argue with me, just do what I'm telling you to do or you'll cancel a sale. "

Been there, Done that. It really chaps my hide when I, as the customer, know more about the clerks job, than the clerk. And it happens all too often.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,
Thank you for the clarification. Hauling trailers, as you were, it makes more sense to me as to why you would license the truck for 26K. My current flatbed is licensed for 14K. I am not sure what the truck is licensed for, but I guess I should make sure it is set for 11,500.

If my memory serves, in a previous post you mentioned that you gave up your CDL. I guess that with your current set up, you are running with a Class A non-CDL?

Exactly. As you know, CDL drivers are held to a higher standard when driving anything. Even getting pulled over for a minor speed infraction means a ticket for a CDL holder with no opportunity to take a safe drive course to keep it off the driver's record where a non-CDL driver will often get a written warning ticket.

I voluntarily surrendered and traded the CDL A for a Class A operator license last summer at renewal time. A couple of months later I was on my Honda ST-1300 which was a rocket without a cruise control and was pulled over in the Texas Hilll Country for speeding. I received a written warning which has now disappeared from my record.

 

[RVTRKN]

AHutchison, you see the can of worms you opened here, but the bottom line is stay within your axle weights and the trailer axle weight ratings of the trailer. Its obvious you don't have a commercial lic. , or you would know your limitations. If your wondering what size RV you can haul then the answer is the same, and whatever RV you decide on, make sure the dealer will allow you to take it to a scale and have it weighed on a certified scale before purchase. I'm sure the RV you chose to haul will be within the 3500 ratings unless you buy an extremely long coach. Look at the dry weight ratings to get a good idea, and calculate the loaded weight, I'm sure if you demand to allow it to be weighed first, the Sales person will not try to sell you an RV to big. As far as being sued, for being over Dodge's GCVWR, unless you hit a politician or Trooper, I wouldn't worry about it. Your not going to be that much over Dodge's GCVWR for someone to sue you. Slip and fall Leaches can sue for anything in our stupid Justice system, but there is no Case Law (that I'm aware of) to support it. And unless your worth Millions, they will go for the insurance limit any way.

 

[Cosmo]

Based on your logic you have a 800 lb payload on an 3/4 ton truck.

8800 MAXIMUM GROSS WEIGHT
- 7000 SCALE WEIGHT EMPTY
--------

1800 pound payload.

Minus of course about 400 pounds for 2 people, another 300 pounds for the toolbox and all of the crap I carry with me 24/7. That leaves about 1100 pounds for payload + trailer tongue/pin weight. Not a whole heck of a lot.



My old 3/4 had an 8510 gross, ~5000 scale, for a 3500 payload.

All true and accurate.

Taking Bill's statement a step farther, many (most?) Texas light truck owners are registered for insufficient weight to load their 3/4 or dually pickup to gross vehicle weight. They are blissfully unaware that the title clerk in the dealership that sold them the truck and the court house clerk that registered it were clueless and although they saved him a few dollars, they left him vulnerable to a ticket if he ever gets pulled onto a roadside weigh scale during a DPS campaign.

So can anyone provide a link to a state or federal law that says a vehicle with manufacturer provided gross weights of say 9000 pounds gross, 18000 gross combined, is legal to run at registered weights of say 12,000 and 25,000? I know I could register my truck at higher weights, but every law I've read says something along the lines of "up to the gross weight stated by the manufacturer".

 

[HBarlow]

8800 MAXIMUM GROSS WEIGHT
- 7000 SCALE WEIGHT EMPTY
--------

1800 pound payload.

Minus of course about 400 pounds for 2 people, another 300 pounds for the toolbox and all of the crap I carry with me 24/7. That leaves about 1100 pounds for payload + trailer tongue/pin weight. Not a whole heck of a lot.



My old 3/4 had an 8510 gross, ~5000 scale, for a 3500 payload.













So can anyone provide a link to a state or federal law that says a vehicle with manufacturer provided gross weights of say 9000 pounds gross, 18000 gross combined, is legal to run at registered weights of say 12,000 and 25,000? I know I could register my truck at higher weights, but every law I've read says something along the lines of "up to the gross weight stated by the manufacturer".

That is the reason why I and many others always preach the advantages of a dually. I have read 100 posts here on TDR over the years where someone laments the fact that his Ram 2500 is overloaded or twists himself into a pretzle trying to justify hauling a trailer that is too heavy on his 3/4 ton. Some become outraged when they are told they will overload their 2500 with the huge fifthwheel their wife wants to buy.

The moral of the story is buy a dually and avoid the heartburn and expense of replacing the truck. Being unable to park in a garage or drive through and automated car wash are small disadvantages.

There is no such law. DOT laws ordinarily prescribe what is prohibited, not what is authorized. In a very basic sense, what is not prohibited is legal. DOT enforces weights from the perspective of safety. Tires are the primary limiting factors. If loads do not overload the tires, they are okay with it. DOT only considers GVWR in certain circumstances such as when they suspect the non-CDL driver is hauling or capable of hauling combined weights greater than 26k.

You can choose to believe what I and others are telling you, or disbelieve. It is your choice. Some of us have been there and done it. I have passed over DOT scales 100s of times and experienced many formal roadside inspections.

 

[RVTRKN]

Cosmo, the only numbers that mater to DOT, are on your drivers door tag, and on the trailer data plate, and you may not exceed those numbers. We can argue about tire ratings, but you must have tires that meet or exceed the rating of the axles. So when I was registered for 26K with my signature truck, I was legally able to haul a GCVWR of 26K with my Class A lic. , but each axle (to include truck and trailer) must not exceed its rating.

Steer axle/ Drive axle/ combination of trailer axles, can not exceed the axle ratings for each, but can add up to over Dodge's GCVWR and be legal. Back to the drivers door tag with the ratings, have you ever seen the GCVWR listed there?



As far as insurance is concerned, when the insurance salesman of 30+ plus years, told me I couln't insure it for the 26K registered weight, I refered him to the DOT regs, and he was surprized to find out I was right. He made a phone call to Farmers Headquarters commercial division and they confirmed it was legal and can issue a policy, and did. The price sucked though. :{

 

[TWalley]

Cosmo,



Check the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration website. Lots of good info there. I would sugguest you go straight to the source. Call the state police, highway patrol, in the state you live in and ask for their commercial motor vehicle division or DOT division. That is the opinion that will matter.

 

[Cosmo]

I'm not going to waste my time looking for a law that isn't there...

Are we talking strictly commercial use, or personal? I was under the impression that we were talking about personal use, and there isn't a whole lot of info out there.

Interestingly enough, I was browsing Ramtrucks.com and noticed that the diesel 2500s got bumped up to 9600 pounds gross, which allows for about 2500 pounds of people/gear/payload, considerably better than the 3rd gen trucks. I also noticed that short bed 1-tons only get a 10k gross rating, but the long bed versions get a 12k+ gross weight rating. That's huge. Want a mega cab 1-ton dually to haul your family in comfort? You better not have a heavy trailer, because the payload is only 2500 pounds, and you can fit a lot of people and stuff in the cab of that truck. Heck, put 4 200-pound adults in there with no extra gear and now you better have less than 1700 pounds on the hitch/pin.


Unless someone can provide proof otherwise, I'm sticking to my guns. You cannot increase (as an individual) your gross combination weight. You may get a permit for overweight commercial transport, but you cannot alter the gcwr from the manufacturer.

Just because something isn't enforced does not mean it is legal. Take handicapped parking permits, for example - plenty of people buy off their doctors and get one when they don't qualify, but that doesn't make it legal. Same with removing emissions equipment - just because your local/state government doesn't do testing or inspections does not make it legal to remove or defeat the emissions systems on your truck.

I predict we'll see some new laws and/or case law hitting the books as joebob smith can now buy a pickup truck rated to tow over 20k. If he were doing it commercially, he would have to get a CDL.

I was blown away when I saw a pickup towing a large 5th wheel travel trailer towing a ski boat down the interstate on my way across the country. People can do that legally without any extra training or licensing requirements. Give it time, someone important/rich will get hurt and the laws will become more clear.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm not going to waste my time looking for a law that isn't there...

Are we talking strictly commercial use, or personal? I was under the impression that we were talking about personal use, and there isn't a whole lot of info out there.

Interestingly enough, I was browsing Ramtrucks.com and noticed that the diesel 2500s got bumped up to 9600 pounds gross, which allows for about 2500 pounds of people/gear/payload, considerably better than the 3rd gen trucks. I also noticed that short bed 1-tons only get a 10k gross rating, but the long bed versions get a 12k+ gross weight rating. That's huge. Want a mega cab 1-ton dually to haul your family in comfort? You better not have a heavy trailer, because the payload is only 2500 pounds, and you can fit a lot of people and stuff in the cab of that truck. Heck, put 4 200-pound adults in there with no extra gear and now you better have less than 1700 pounds on the hitch/pin.


Unless someone can provide proof otherwise, I'm sticking to my guns. You cannot increase (as an individual) your gross combination weight. You may get a permit for overweight commercial transport, but you cannot alter the gcwr from the manufacturer.

Just because something isn't enforced does not mean it is legal. Take handicapped parking permits, for example - plenty of people buy off their doctors and get one when they don't qualify, but that doesn't make it legal. Same with removing emissions equipment - just because your local/state government doesn't do testing or inspections does not make it legal to remove or defeat the emissions systems on your truck.

I predict we'll see some new laws and/or case law hitting the books as joebob smith can now buy a pickup truck rated to tow over 20k. If he were doing it commercially, he would have to get a CDL.

I was blown away when I saw a pickup towing a large 5th wheel travel trailer towing a ski boat down the interstate on my way across the country. People can do that legally without any extra training or licensing requirements. Give it time, someone important/rich will get hurt and the laws will become more clear.

You can "stick to your guns" if you wish but they are pointed at your head. Like many on TDR, you're just refusing to open your mind and attempt to learn and understand something new.

You are confused and don't understand what we've been saying. Nobody is talking about raising the factory GVWR of a truck. We're telling you that it is entirely possible and legal to register a dually with 11,500# GVWR for 26,000# because DOT doesn't really care what vehicle GVWR is. What matters is tire/axle capacity. Two of my previous Dodges were registered at 26,000k. I could not haul the entire 26k on my truck but it was entirely legal to haul an unregistered trailer with a temporary plate and no weight fees paid weighing up to 14,500 (26k - 11. 5k = 14,500k. I had a CDL so could have registered my truck for 35k or even 80k if I had wanted. That would have allowed me to haul a gooseneck flatbed rated at 20k. The registration would not have allowed me to overload any wheel and tire on the truck or trailer.

 

[RVTRKN]

Cosmo, you need to seek the assistance of your State DMV to help in the personal use end of a heavy RV. The regulations differ from State to State. There is a point where a Class A lic. (non commercial), may be required but as I posted before, unless you buy a 45' 5ver you will be fine. Why ask the question, if Members with a couple of hundred thousand of miles post that the GCVWR don't mean squat. It would only matter if the truck was under warranty. Good luck in your quest, it is your decision in the end and your ticket. I can just see the face of the trooper when you claim that the TDR members said it was OK. :-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[Cosmo]

We're telling you that it is entirely possible and legal to register a dually with 11,500# GVWR for 26,000# because DOT doesn't really care what vehicle GVWR is.

Perhaps this is where the confusion comes from. I don't register my truck for my GCWR, I register it for my GVWR, or a close approximation of it. Nowhere in my registration does it mention trailer weight or combination weight. In WA, where I spent most of my life, and now in in FL, you register the truck for the gross vehicle weight, and you're not legal if you exceed the manufacturer's stated maximum weights.

Cosmo, you need to seek the assistance of your State DMV to help in the personal use end of a heavy RV. The regulations differ from State to State. There is a point where a Class A lic. (non commercial), may be required but as I posted before, unless you buy a 45' 5ver you will be fine. Why ask the question, if Members with a couple of hundred thousand of miles post that the GCVWR don't mean squat. It would only matter if the truck was under warranty. Good luck in your quest, it is your decision in the end and your ticket. I can just see the face of the trooper when you claim that the TDR members said it was OK. :-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf

You keep telling me to go talk to other people. WHY???

I don't give a rats *** about increasing my GCWR, I don't plan on hauling much of anything for the next few years at least. If I decide I want a heavy trailer, I'll get a heavier duty truck.

I too have driven heavy across scales without so much as raising an eye, but had they wanted to hassle me, they could have easily found violations. Like I said, just because you can get away with it, doesn't mean it's legal.

 

[HBarlow]

Cosmo,

If you want to understand, start at the beginning and thoughtfully read each post in this thread you might understand. We've answered all your questions several times.

If you don't wish to accept what we're telling you, that's fine with me.

 

[Cosmo]

Provide proof.

It's that simple.

Furthermore, Harvey, what ****ing questions have I asked, aside from PROVIDE PROOF?

 

[Road Dog]

What kind of proof? Here's the BC Trailer towing FAQ. I'm sure it's similar to most states. In BC all pickups are "commercial vehicles" because they haul stuff. It can still be insured for pleasure use. A class 5 DL is just a normal driver's license.

Q. How much can a motor vehicle tow?

The manufacturer usually specifies a vehicle's towing capacity
and/or total gross combination weight in the owner's manual,
usually for warranty purposes. The capacity of the hitch and
mounting hardware is also important, and hitches are usually
stamped with their capacity. Vehicles must have at least
1 horsepower per 150 kg of total GVW. Remember that a
trailer's hitch or tongue weight transfers weight to the towing
unit that must be included in the unit's Gross Vehicle Weight
Rating (GVWR) and Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWR)
(usually located on the door or door post of the motor vehicle).
See the “GVWR FAQs” info sheet for more information. If the
trailer has a commercial license plate, the towing unit must be
licensed for the whole combination weight.