Are my ball joints bad ??

[DBentley]

Did a search and didnt find a real answer.

My 06 balljoints have a little over 1/8 inch up and down play in them with the truck jacked up and a bar is used to pry tire up.

They have no slack in or out just up and down.

Both sides are the same.

I think ball joints should have no slack at all.

I would hate to do all 4 and find out they do the same thing with up and down movement.

 

[jhenderson]

Vertical movement alone does not indicate replacement. Most ball joints are allowed . 250 vert before being condemned. Lateral movement causes tire wear, thus replacement.

 

[cerberusiam]

The concept that ANY vertical play in ball joints is acceptable is BS. Period. Dodge can waffle all they want but up and down play in the BJ's will cause all kinds of transient alignment issues, weird tire wear, and early onset of DW. Especially with y-type steering, its bad ju-ju.

Put in a good set of HD balljoints that are designed correctly with no vertical play then go drive it. Predictability and control increases dramatically.

 

[DBentley]

Thanks for the help but im known to replace parts before knowing there gone.
Ball joints are not an easy project.
I will be using moog or napa ball joints and still am not clear if the new joints will have up and down movement after the install?
If I jacked up a new 2012 2500 4x4 with 2000 miles would there be up and down movement? if so how much?

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

I replaced the ball joints on my '06, twice now, cause of vertical movement. With the new ones installed, there is no movement at all.

 

[cerberusiam]

I will be using moog or napa ball joints and still am not clear if the new joints will have up and down movement after the install?
If I jacked up a new 2012 2500 4x4 with 2000 miles would there be up and down movement? if so how much?

First off, forget the Moogs. They are junk on these trucks. Low life expectancy, memory steer, etc. You will have to check with NAPA to see what they can get in their premium line but usually they are not as good as can be had elsewhere.

Aside from the Carli joints and the DynaTrac rebuldables, the heaviest beefiest units are I have been able to find are the McQuay Norris HD line. These are marketed as the Raybestos Premium line of ball joints. Rock Auto has good prices on them or you can get them at other places also.

I you jacked up a new truck and checked the play it is likely beyond tolerance, thats the way they are built. Please do not use that as gauge for tolerances. Dodge specs for that have been proven crap a long time ago. IIRC, somebody had checked a new truck a couple years ago and the vertical play was something like . 080 and Dodge said it was fine.

For all intents and purposes zero vertial play is the best and that is what you should have with new joints. How much wear is tolerable is going to be dependent on tire, aligment, etc. You might find that . 020 is too much and tires start wearing wrong. Other trucks might tolerate . 040-. 050 before problems show. As a rule on these trucks . 050 is worn out but as I said effects could be seen before they reach that level.

I have over 10k on new Raybestos Premiums. There is no vertical play yet. All I can tell you is replacing them fixed the tire wear problem and considerably tightened the steering. After a new steering box and the 08. 5 steering upgrade, new Bilstien shocks it drives better than new with a large wider MT tire.

 

[Bob4x4]

factory spec 2. 29 mm (0. 090 in) for lower ball joint movement

 

[jhenderson]

You can't tell me that vertical play alone can cause tire wear. It takes lateral movement to change camber or toe. Vert play shows wear in the joint but not necessarily danger or tire trouble. 25 years ago, GM ball joints were allowed 1/4 inch vert movement, but no lateral. Our stock upper joints are basically king pins, and it is almost impossible to avoid some vertical play.

 

[cerberusiam]

Well, I can tell you that but unless you understand how the ball joints work and what happens with vertical movement then you won't believe me.

Since ball joints are not king pins, the upper ball joints are not king pins on our trucks, all the talk about huge vertical movement is meaningless.

Since vertical movement in a ball joint causes toe and camber changes every time the wheel is turned, not to mention vague steering, it is inherently bad. How much is too much is a function of different parameters. Either way, the OE design and Dodge specs for vertical movement are ridiculously slanted to their benefit. Been proven over an over tight ball joints consdierably improve the handling, tire life, etc.

With a well designed ball joint no vertical movement is easily achieved. The cheap compensating design of the stock BJ's should never be used on these trucks and thats the biggest reason for the issues.

 

[rscurtis]

Sorry to disagree, but the upper is nothing more than a king pin. As it wears, you will get lateral movement.

 

[cerberusiam]

Sorry, I put articulated ball joints in mine when I rebuilt it. Maybe that is one of those quality things that cause the OE pieces so many problems, they are a hacked up mess that don't work right for anything.

 

[jhenderson]

I do understand how the ball joints work in our trucks. I spent my early years working iin a frame and front end shop that had the best rep in our state. I specialized I 4x4 drive train repair. The change in camber and toe from vert play is minuscule. Our stock ball joints are poorly designed. That is why at 150,000 miles I replaced them withDyna Tracs. While the stock joints had increasing vert play from 40,000 miles on, I did not replace them until they showed some lateral movement. I never experienced any abnormal tire wear until that time. My experience . Yours may vary.

 

[cerberusiam]

Then you understand that vertical movement can and will change toe and camber as the ball rides up out of the socket. The more wear the more out of spec things go. This one of the 3rd gens major weak points and a known issue for the better part of 10 years. Its not only my experience but thousands of others as well.

The stock ball joints are CHEAPLY designed, thats the biggest issue. The only time the thing is aligned is at rest. As soon as you load up the suspension rolling down the road and\or turn the ball is walking in the socket if there is vertical play. Just another case of the cheapest functional component to get it past the warranty stage.

I replaced the existing BJ's will fully articulated lower AND upper joints that are a full ball design with NO spring and NO movement. There is ZERO vertical movement in spindle now and when I installed them. The difference in steering was noticeable and the tires showed definite wear from the excessive vertical movement.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Go to any forum you want and start searching for suspension\steering problems. You can waste WEEKS reading all the complaints, problems, and multitude of fixes. XRF, Moog, Dynatrac, Carli, etc, etc, etc. This stuff would never be made if there wasn't issues with design and quality of the OE parts.

 

[Prairie Dog]

They're not all bad. . mine are still tight (1/8" movement) after 82K. Just checked them last Sat. after having the other front U-joint start screeching.
Of course I have a total of about 20 miles of off road driving.

 

[pjorlando]

Replaced my ball joints with KRF units. They are out of Canada and carry a million mile warranty. I grew fond of these while working on the brush trucks we used in the FD down in Florida. They are greasable and hold up pretty darn good. BTW, got 100,000 out of stock units, and yes there was play in those, hence the replacement.

 

[sag2]

I have observed hundreds, probably thousands of stock trucks with OEM ball joints with perfect tire wear.

 

[jelag]

Over the years I've owned several of these trucks... as well as a few Fords... I didn't look for problems and only did repair work on the front end when we'd see excessive tire wear... I'd often install tires on the truck and change tires once a year as we moved into winters. I agree that they have excessive play and more than I'd personally like to see. . but until I can see tire wear on the front end that shortens tire life I'm not going to do any work to it...

In the same tone, I've not aligned the front end unless I see wear. . The current truck I own and drive has 19. 5" tires on it..... has 140K miles and has the stock parts and the factory alignment... I'm sure that a tire shop would want to replace the ball joints and align the front end but we've been happy with the wear and tire life we receive and the "cost per mile" I receive on the tires.

Just my thoughts... .