10 speed autos next?

[NIsaacs]

Per my latest Truck Trend Magazine, Ford and GM will join forces to develop 9 and 10 speed autos. GM will focus on the 9 spd. for front wheel drive and Ford will concentrate on the 10 spd. for rear wheel drive vehicles. GM has an 8 spd. that they might use in limited use on the Cadillac while Ford scrapped their 8 spd. in favor of the 10 spd. development.



And we can't even get a 7 spd. standard:-laf



Nick

 

[TJJEEPER]

If I'm not mistaken the new Ram 1500 has an 8 speed. Probably too much of a light duty to ever make the leap to 850 Ft Lbs of torque.

 

[AH64ID]

I'm with you Nick. . I just want a double OD 7 speed manual.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Unortunately, the demand for manual transmissions is steady declining as automatic transmissions improve and engine/transmission/driveline torque management is increasingly an important factor in high horsepower/high torque engine applications. Low volume equals low manufacturing profit which in turn limits resources ($$) for research, development, engineering, and eventual production.

Bill

 

[GCroyle]

Unortunately, the demand for manual transmissions is steady declining as automatic transmissions improve and engine/transmission/driveline torque management is increasingly an important factor in high horsepower/high torque engine applications. Low volume equals low manufacturing profit which in turn limits resources ($$) for research, development, engineering, and eventual production.



Bill

Bill,



I think you hit a significant point with your . 02$. And just for discussion purposes, I'd like to add a few observations.



I think in many cases the A/T was an in house item, so you were buying from your sister division to put an A/T in the vehicle. When did (fill in the blank major vehicle builder) last equip their car or truck with their own make of M/T? I honestly don't know, seems all M/T's were outsorced from the likes of NV, Getrag, Borg Warner, ZF etc. etc.



Now, pay attention to the magazine adds, TV adds, ever notice how many times they show a stick shift in the ad? I see it frequently, but I'm looking for it too. Seems you know you can always get the A/T so to attract the involved driver, they show the manual option.



One other thing is the R&D that might still be going on in countries that are predominatly M/T vehicle populations, Europe and Asia. The OE engineers are creating new systems, we just might not hear about them.



When I got my Dodge 5. 9L I bought it just for the powertrain combination, and now I'm darn glad I have one of the simpler 2005's with a strong less complicated engine and the handshaker was not optional for me, it had to have it. If I ever need another truck, I'm not putting A/T's down, I'm just stating my prefference and I'll do everything possible to make sure it has a clutch pedal. Or maybe just run this one to dust.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Bill,



I think you hit a significant point with your . 02$. And just for discussion purposes, I'd like to add a few observations.



I think in many cases the A/T was an in house item, so you were buying from your sister division to put an A/T in the vehicle. When did (fill in the blank major vehicle builder) last equip their car or truck with their own make of M/T? I honestly don't know, seems all M/T's were outsorced from the likes of NV, Getrag, Borg Warner, ZF etc. etc.

Absolutely. In house means manufacturing profit for the vehicle manufacturer. Buying from a transmission supplier means someone else is making the profit; however, the transmission manufacturer's volume increases which spreads the cost over more units and can possibly lead to a lower cost transmission to the original vehicle manufacturer.



I ran into a lot of that during my 30+ years with I-H/Navistar both as a company rep and later as a dealer retail salesman. They preferred and would give us better price breaks and production times on fleet deals when we specified trucks built with their own in house built engines, transmissions, axles, etc. I didn't go for it unless I thought it was beneficial to my customers.



Bill

 

[BarryG]

One other note to add is that with the cafe and emmission requirements they need the additional gears (and associated electronic inputs for those gears) to keep the engine in a very specific rpm range to maximize or minimize fuel economy and emissions. It is much easier to fullfil those requirements within a narrower operating rpm band than it is with a wider spread. Which would help explain the more gears in an auto and maybe not so much the lessening of the demand for a manual but they just cant get where they need to be with one.

 

[Wayne M.]

Not trucks, but the big 3 had their own manuals in the 60's and 70's. I think chryslers 3&4 speeds were really in house and eventually spun off to become new process gear. I know the electric hybrid trucks I've seen so far have automated manuals. The Mack Mdrive/ Volvo iDrive is a 6X2 gearbox. It's pretty impressive. I'm sure it's a requirement to keep the engine in a specific tight band.
Gary, I'm with you on the culture aspect of owning a hand shaker. People/ kids go nuts when they get in my truck for a ride; "THEY STILL MAKE THESE??!!" My answer is its a dying art form. My kids think its normal. In the new "Wreck it Ralph" movie, a main character gets a "cart" and learns how to drive it. It's a stick, and they let it be known.

 

[ABennin]

Gary, I'm with you on the culture aspect of owning a hand shaker. People/ kids go nuts when they get in my truck for a ride; "THEY STILL MAKE THESE??!!" My answer is its a dying art form. My kids think its normal. In the new "Wreck it Ralph" movie, a main character gets a "cart" and learns how to drive it. It's a stick, and they let it be known.

I was listening to a local talk show driving into work a couple weeks ago and they do a segment about stupid people who made the news. This happened somewhere out on the west coast. Two teenagers ran up to a car that was stopped at an intersection, pulled a gun and ordered the owner out of the car. He did and they jumped in and realized very quickly it was stick shift. The kid in the drivers seat asked the other, do you know how to drive stick and he didn't. So they bailed on foot and the guy called the cops. They were arrested soon after.

I am saddened to see manuals fall by the wayside. I have not owned an automatic yet, but due to lack of options in the future will have to buy one eventually.

 

[jgillott]

Not trucks, but the big 3 had their own manuals in the 60's and 70's. I think chryslers 3&4 speeds were really in house and eventually spun off to become new process gear. I know the electric hybrid trucks I've seen so far have automated manuals. The Mack Mdrive/ Volvo iDrive is a 6X2 gearbox. It's pretty impressive. I'm sure it's a requirement to keep the engine in a specific tight band.
Gary, I'm with you on the culture aspect of owning a hand shaker. People/ kids go nuts when they get in my truck for a ride; "THEY STILL MAKE THESE??!!" My answer is its a dying art form. My kids think its normal. In the new "Wreck it Ralph" movie, a main character gets a "cart" and learns how to drive it. It's a stick, and they let it be known.

I still have an old Chevy C-10 with a 3 on the tree. The younger crowd is just amazed to see that they used to make them that way.

 

[Wayne M.]

I still have an old Chevy C-10 with a 3 on the tree. The younger crowd is just amazed to see that they used to make them that way.

You have an obligation to keep it that way- you know. Betcha it's nice and sloppy. Lol.

I always say in regard to how people generally drive recklessly around these parts, make them drive a '66 Chevy with bias ply tires, manual steering, and 3 on the tree. THAT'LL SLOW THEM DOWN!!

 

[jgillott]

I still have an old Chevy C-10 with a 3 on the tree. The younger crowd is just amazed to see that they used to make them that way.

You have an obligation to keep it that way- you know. Betcha it's nice and sloppy. Lol.

I always say in regard to how people generally drive recklessly around these parts, make them drive a '66 Chevy with bias ply tires, manual steering, and 3 on the tree. THAT'LL SLOW THEM DOWN!!

Mine does have the optional power steering and AM radio..... :-laf

 

[Wingate]

I am betting on a CVT in the not to distant future...
I know it has been toyed with with limited success so far, but I can see it gaining momentum... . As engineers experiment with super lean combustion, it will be an advantage to keep the rpm up at a more consistent speed and the throttle will control more of the trans function than engine speed... Unfortunately it will be almost like a wal-mart riding lawn mower. . . But, it will allow ULC, SLC to become an engineering reality(disaster)

 

[goodguys75]

I think everyone should know how to drive a manual, but automatics are so nice..... when i got my mega, that was the first thing i wanted... . my legs would get tired of clutching in my 04... in city traffic, but on road trips, it was a lot of fun...

 

[rscurtis]

The days of super lean combustion are over. Starting in 1973, everything ran (or attempted to run) super lean. Chrysler used it on some of their engines to negate the use of a catalyst. Honda had their CVCC system which also did not need a cat. With the advent of the three-way catalyst for NOX control, engines run at stoichiometric mixtures and I think that's the way it's going to stay.



Future FE improvements can be accomplished by removing the 500-1000# of useless junk that newer vehicles are saddled with.

 

[Wingate]

The days of super lean combustion are over. Starting in 1973, everything ran (or attempted to run) super lean. Chrysler used it on some of their engines to negate the use of a catalyst. Honda had their CVCC system which also did not need a cat. With the advent of the three-way catalyst for NOX control, engines run at stoichiometric mixtures and I think that's the way it's going to stay.

Future FE improvements can be accomplished by removing the 500-1000# of useless junk that newer vehicles are saddled with.

haha. . didnt say I agreed with it. . but I could see it happening... Didnt Honda and GM both try with 4 wheel steer once??. .

And you mean they are gonna do away with the 34 12v accessory ports?? But I need those!...

 

[Wayne M.]

My Duster weighs in at 2975# on the Reggie. Show me any new car half that size that can match it. I often thought about putting a current era 4 cyl engine and trans just to see what kind of numbers it would put up.

 

[GCroyle]

Early this year we went to the Advance Auto Part meeting in Charlotte and the idea was to include our 2007 in the booth, so far so good. We stayed in a 1st class hotel right downtown, the 2007 G56 and my 2005 NV5600 made the trip. The only parking was indoors and valet, oh boy these kids are in for a treat. The launch point for the valet started UPHILL and 60' later hard right, repeat and repeat. I asked the clean cut valet if he knew how to drive a manual, Of course sir, we know how! OK, how about a full size Dodge with a Diesel engine and a manual, a bit of stuttering and stammering followed, oh by the way, I work for a clutch company etc, etc. The panic was starting to take over his expression. Then I told him that a 2nd truck our show display truck would be here soon and would need "kid glove" respect, he sorta gulped IIRC. I suggested that due to circumstances, I'd go along as co-pilot, Yes Sir, that would be fine with me. I tried to introduce the concept of torque at idle with the Cummins and no need to give it any "gas" to get it rolling. He just couldn't grasp the concept and it took a bit but we did make it, but when he finally accepted the engage 1st gear at IDLE, let it pull on its own well, can you say he was startled by the power at idle?



We wound up tutoring 3 valets about these powerful drivetrains and had no problems with respect for the trucks and their unique outfitting.



3 on the tree, owned two Fords and one was an Econoline pickup with the doghouse and real cab forward design. Don't remember how many miles were on that worn out 3 on the tree, but if you got sloppy sliding it into 2nd, the selector at the bottom of the column would get stuck between positions and it was ALL STOP, get out and pull it back into sync, not real hard, but this old Ford didn't have a parking brake that worked, truck in N, no brakes, ya'll be careful.



I have 3 kids and two of them are proficient with manuals, oldest daughter ran a Neon for years and son has a '97 3500 NV4500. I think they both appreciate the skill.



I really believe that the CAFE requirements were a major influence on clutches, in particular pushing the design of torsion dampers to tackle noise that used to be non-existant due to heavy parts and 85W140, flywheel and M/T designs and most likely pushed the trend to where we are today, disposable clutches as opposed to the old heavy rebuildable clutches that most of us grew up with.

 

[jgillott]

I'd be interested to know what percent of medium/heavy duty applications are now being ordered with auto or semi-auto transmissions. Every truck my company has purchased in the last 20 years (mostly medium dutys) have been an auto with the exception of one tri-axle which is an 18 speed.

 

[Bob4x4]

The days of super lean combustion are over. Starting in 1973, everything ran (or attempted to run) super lean. Chrysler used it on some of their engines to negate the use of a catalyst. Honda had their CVCC system which also did not need a cat. With the advent of the three-way catalyst for NOX control, engines run at stoichiometric mixtures and I think that's the way it's going to stay.



Future FE improvements can be accomplished by removing the 500-1000# of useless junk that newer vehicles are saddled with.

And killing un-needed cylinders under light load cruise