Trailer hauling to midwest.. where to find deadhead transport drivers?

[GAmes]

Spokane to St. Paul is 1340 miles. To contract with a legit transporter, who would be using a transporter license plate, (assuming you could find one who would do it) would run in the vicinity of $2000 for the trip. If it is worth that much to you PM me and I'll send you the phone# of the company I lease to in Portland and the sister company in IN.

 

[S.Morris]

I remember well the first load I pulled for Horizon out of Wakarusa. I delivered it in CA near Sacramento. I had spent about four and a half days on the road and earned about $2400. Sounds like a lot until you turn around and pay your own way - four to five days of fuel, meals, and lodging back to Wakarusa. The "rich" driver also has to take time off for a driver's log reset before he starts over. I ran hard when I was transporting, working harder and earning more than most drivers. I was running around 135k miles/year, grossing about $75k, and keeping a net of about $35k not counting the truck. If the driver counts the cost of buying and depreciating a truck it is nothing more than an expensive hobby with lots of travel.



That's about 11. 50 an hr not counting truck maintenance/repairs. Up here, a Walmart greeter makes 10. 50 an hour! Scenery is different though. LOL

 

[JDerrig]

Thanks for the quote estimate GAmes!



Sorry Harv, this is a serious inquiry and question and that's why I want to get to understand this and get to the bottom of it! You seem to be a valid person to inquire about my such question with your experience and expertise! I appreciate it!



Idaho can't issue any trailer plates until they get a scale slip with the single pole 2wheel "built" utility trailer weight which is certainly was under 1500 pounds in weight, remember that axle really is just a half ton axle with an 8bolt lug, not a Dana 60+ type axle. It scaled in around 1340lbs if I recall from the registration slip . Maybe Texas is different, I think probably more lenient? What I have been informed from DMV if you are under 3000#GCW for fed highways, no trailer brakes required. Then if no trailer brakes req's, no breakaway brakes req'd. Have you seen different? I can't imagine anyone towing a utilty trailer with their ATVs, sleds, firewood etc. wondering why there isn't trailer axle brakes on it! I need detailed facts, not opinions. What does it say in your CDL book?



In short, this trailer is "DOT" approved and would be legal to haul, I have no reason to believe from the state inspection and research that I have done that it wouldn't pass DOT approval, that is the reason I am posted this question to see how I can get PART X from Point A to Point B. So how do I get to this point like you mentioned in previous post, "Actually I did haul a couple of private hauls for personal friends but both were travel trailers already insured and legally licensed so I didn't have to put my signs on or run a log book, stop at scales, etc. I just went off the clock and became an ordinary private driver for those two hauls. " I certainly could get this "trailer" insured and it's already licensed, then would I be good for something to clock out and haul? These parts are all for personal use and would be shipped to my brother for truck restos, I'm unsure if that would be considered commercial use?



So basically these drivers hands are tied and must run empty, and have no choice to pay the 500-600$ in fuel, and $ housing, food to get back? Basically, here's another way to ask this. . Say, if a company had half a load to haul cross country, would rather have a full load, would that company charge full price for an individual to help them run a full load? Would this be any different? A guy has an empty truck, going across the country empty, wouldn't a guy want to run something to minimize the loss to the bottom line? I'm not trying to take a legitimate driver's earnings away from him, I think a transport company having him pay his way back with no pay is taking away earnings!



Okay, say... .

8000 paid miles x 1. 50=$12,000

16000 total miles / 14=1142. 85 gallons

1142. 85 x $4. 00=$4571. 40 fuel cost

Net after fuel $7429 per month.



1800$ a week net, sorry I think being a transport driver is just something to keep someone busy but not always come out ahead much that way it sounds! LIke you said but an expensive vacation!



I didn't think this inquiry would get into this type of detail, but it is interesting to understand how it works.



-Jim







As for

 

[HBarlow]

You can look up and find the answers on trailer brakes as well as I can. Search for US DOT regulations. Trailer brake requirements vary by state but generally anything with a weight of greater than 1500 lbs. requires brakes. ID law is irrelevant here. The trailer won't be licensed or towed in ID. Empty weights are for bs artists - they mean nothing. The only weight that matters for a trailer is GVWR because a trailer is used to haul cargo. In the absence of a VIN tag with GVWR stamped DOT will use tire carrying capacity. An eight lug 16" tire will have a capacity beween about 2700# and 3000# meaning your trailers are 5,400 to 6,000# trailers.

GAmes and I have both given you numbers. If you wish to continue living in a make believe world and fooling yourself have at it.

 

[GAmes]

Sorry Harvey, I think in this case you are wrong. I read this FMCSA page as actual weight, not GVWR, determines brake req. Additionally, in the case where there isn't a vin tag with a GVWR (like my deckover trailer) I have read that actual weight governs a need for a CDL-A, and I'm assuming (I know) that the same would apply for an non-vin-tagged trailer for brake requirements.



From; http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...nal/E7-3815-Surge-Brake-Final-Rule-3-6-07.htm



Whereas the FMVSSs--other than FMVSS No. 121--do not specify performance requirements for trailer braking, Section 393. 40 of the FMCSRs requires each CMV to have brakes adequate to stop and hold the vehicle or combination of motor vehicles. Trailer braking performance is specified in Section 393. 52(d) of the FMCSRs, and generally requires property-carrying vehicles and combinations of property-carrying vehicles used in interstate commerce be able to stop within 40 feet from 20 miles-per-hour (mph) on a hard surface that is substantially level, dry, smooth, and free of loose material. However, any semitrailer, trailer, or pole trailer with a gross weight of 3,000 pounds or less is not required to be equipped with brakes if the axle weight of the towed vehicle does not exceed 40 percent of the sum of the axle weights of the towing vehicle. Thus, a combination operating in interstate commerce would not need brakes on a 3,000-pound trailer when pulled by a 7,500-pound or heavier towing vehicle (49 CFR 393. 42(b) (3)-(4)). In these cases, the vehicle combination must be able to stop within 35 feet from 20 mph, and the service brakes of the towing vehicle alone are sufficient to stop the combination.

 

[HBarlow]

You're mistaken, Gary.

Try crossing the scale at the WY port of entry at Cheyenne and explaining to the WY DOT cops at the scale how trailer empty weight is what counts. One of the first loads I hauled through there before I had a CDL A was a large and heavy conventional travel trailer. The DOT cop examined my docs then asked me what I was hauling. I told him. He grinned and said, "follow me. " We walked out to my truck where he opened the truck door, read the VIN tag GVWR and then read the GVWR off the trailer. He added the numbers together in his head and, as I knew well, the total was under 26k so I was okay. He told me he had put a transporter out of service earlier that day for combined gross weights exceeding 26k with an ordinary driver's license. You and I have talked about this before. You have told me an advantage of your old '97 Dodge is the lower GVWR of 10,500# compared to the higher GVWRs of newer trucks. You know as well as I do that is important because you don't have a CDL. That GVWR will be added to the GVWR of your trailer to determine what you can haul.

DOT cops use tire carrying capacity times the number of tires on the ground to determine weight in the absence of a GVWR posted on the trailer by the manufacturer. They could care less what empty weight is. No DOT cop ever asked what my empty weight was or used my empty scale weight to determine if I was legal. They used trailer GVWR before I got a CDL A. Then it no longer mattered.

I haven't read the portion of the federal DOT website that discusses determination of trailer brake requirements and have no intention of doing so. Common sense should tell anyone that a trailer with the capacity to weigh 5,000 to 6,000 lbs. when loaded requires brakes - on at least one axle if a tandem and on the only axle if a single. Think about this: Does it sound reasonable that the op's trailer which he claims only weighs 1340# does not require brakes when unloaded and under ID's requirement of brakes over 1500 lbs. ? What about when he has that junk truck cab in it that weighs a couple hundred pounds? Then it weighs over 1500 lbs. and requires trailer brakes. So you're saying the trailer does not require brakes when empty but it would when cargo is in it? You know better than that.

Here are a couple of websites that list trailer brake requirements by state:

http://www.ehow.com/list_7248853_laws-towing-trailer.html
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

 

[GAmes]

Harvey, I provided you with an FMCSA site that addresses trailer brake requirements for CMVs, which the trailer would be if towed for money. You give me sites with dubious credibility. Brake requirements are a far cry from CDL requirements, I'm sorry I brought that up.



You also advance the internet myth about trailer tire ratings determining GVWR. Again, here it is from the FMCSA;



Gross combination weight rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination (articulated) motor vehicle. In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR will be determined by adding the GVWR of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and any load thereon.



http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...ext.aspx?reg=390.5&keyword=missing gvwr plate



If you read my post you have read "the portion of the federal DOT website that discusses determination of trailer brake requirements" and I think it is pretty clear. As long as the trailer and it's contents weigh less than 3000 pounds, no brakes are required, with the caveats that are listed.

 

[HBarlow]

Try explaining what the FMCSA site says to a DOT inspector sometime, Gary.

I am not going to search through all the muddled and disorganized individual statutes in the DOT regs to prove my point but there are various references to determination of trailer weights by using the figure of 5,000 lbs. which is the ordinary carrying capacity of a big truck tire. Big trailers don't have GVWR tags and DOT considers 5,000 lbs. times the number of tires for weight. 20,000/ dual wheel axle, or 40,000 lbs. per tandem axle pair is the weight of trailer. You can quote and misinterpret DOT regs if it makes you feel better. I know better. Try your explanation on a DOT cop sometime and see how far you get.

DOT inspectors don't give a hoot what you tell them the unloaded weight of a trailer is or what the scale weight is when empty. A trailer is not designed and built for pulling around empty. A trailer is meant for carrying a load. Therefore the weight that counts is the loaded weight. . Try pulling that old flatbed trailer you mentioned across the WY DOT scale at Cheyenne sometime and see if they count empty weight. If your trailer is a dual wheel tandem DOT considers it a 20,000 lb. trailer and you'll be put out of service without a CDL A. If its a single wheel tandem it's a 12,000 lb. trailer but it and your truck had better be registered for the total weights when loaded, not empty.

Texas registration on my HitchHiker fifthwheel and my hydraulic dump trailer is based on loaded weight, not empty. Even the tax clerks know better. They don't calculate registration fees on the unladen factory weight, they register it at GVWR.

When I got my CDL A in Lubbock back when I was transporting I borrowed a tandem axle dual wheel flat bed gooseneck hooked to my '06 Ram dually to take the driving test. A combination truck and trailer grossing over 26k is required to take the driving exam. The examiner walked outside with me, looked at that trailer and my truck and considered the combination the same as a big truck. The examiner had no interest whatsoever what the empty weight was. What the examiner wanted to know was what that trailer could/would weigh fully loaded. 3,000 lbs. /tire multiplied by eight wheels made that a 24,000 lb. trailer. Empty it probably weighed 10k. Adding 10k to the 11. 5k of my truck would not exceed 26k and that rig would not have been sufficient to take a CDL A driving test.

 

[RVTRKN]

The OP had a question and is inexperienced obviously. I doubt that he will find someone to pull it for what he perceives would be a win win situation. Regs are for lawyers and DOT, the DOT know the short cuts and if pulled in for inspection, you can bet they will find any reason to justify their existence. If pulled over, your only hope is the judge is your relative. With the hundreds of military trucks I have had on inspection racks, they will find something. As far as the trailer attracting attention, you bet it will. Hopefully he can find an independent with a flat bed trailer on the way home.

 

[GAmes]

Harvey, I have given you two examples straight from the FMCSA sites regarding trailer weight and trailer brake requirements. CDL requirements have nothing to do with the thread's subject. I know you once got a bum deal from a DOT guy in Iowa, and I have met a couple of jerks in MT, but I haven't yet met one who goes outside the book to determine the legality of a load. Show me something from the FMCSA that states GVWR is based on trailer tire capacities. Then show me something from the FMCSA that states brake requirements are based on GVWR and we can have a conversation.

 

[NIsaacs]

As far as the trailer attracting attention, you bet it will.





That trailer and load would pass for personal use if pulled with an unmarked pickup truck. A DOT officer would not even see it.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

As far as the trailer attracting attention, you bet it will.


That trailer and load would pass for personal use if pulled with an unmarked pickup truck. A DOT officer would not even see it.



Nick

On an interstate highway behind a truck with out of state plates that every DOT officer from ME to OR can recognize from a mile away as a transporter's truck? I don't think so. DOT officers can recognize a transporter truck with a glance. So can I.

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,

You're trying to use a paragraph or two in the DOT regs twisted out of context to prove a point, apparently to convince yourself of something you want to do with that old flatbed trailer you have. The reference you quoted states a weight but does not explain how that weight was determined. The key element here is how weight was determined. If you read through DOT regulations you'll find numerous references to 5,000 lbs. /wheel, 20,000 lbs. /axle, 40,000 lbs. / tandem pair. THAT is the way DOT determines weight in the absence of a weight sticker if a driver does not have a CDL A.

If you've never had a scale operator go outside and inspect your truck and trailer you've led a very sheltered life as a transporter. I suspect it is because you're operating as an outlaw most of the time. I've had numerous inspections all over the country and I was always pulling with newer equipment than you do. I had a roadside inspection in IA once because of window tint. A year later the same trooper was behind the scale counter and called me inside with my paperwork. My docs were perfect so he took me outside and did a complete roadside inspection of my then new '06. A TN trooper came outside once when I entered TN southbound and gave me another complete roadside. Once, a real old guy somewhere across the south, MS or AL I think, hobbled outside all the way out to the scale parking area to check what my trailer brakeaway lanyard was attached to. It was attached to a spring hook in the truck bed. He told me he saw and ticketed lots of drivers because they hooked the lanyard over their fifthwheel release handle. Another time a TX License and Weight trooper pulled me into a temporary weigh station along I-30 in east Texas and inspected everything with particular attention to all my lights on the truck and trailer.

If you think driver's possession of a CDL A or an ordinary driver's license doesn't matter you have learned very little in your transporting experience. Horizon Transport taught us the importance of that factor during their three day indoctrination before they ever dispatched us with the first load.

If a driver has a CDL Class A actual scale weight determines what a trailer weighs. If a driver is operating with an ordinary driver's license as you and many other transporters do DOT uses gross combined weight of truck and trailer determined by reading the GVWR off the truck and adding it to the GVWR of the trailer. That combined number can not exceed 26,000 lbs. If the trailer being towed does not have a factory GVWR tag the weight is determined by carrying capacity of the tires. If you doubt me on this take the time to visit one of the TXDPS regional offices in the larger cities like Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Midland, or Lubbock. Talk to a lieutenant in commercial enforcement and he'll explain it to you. I did this before I ever reported to Wakarusa to go to work for Horizon. That DPS lieutenant probably spent an hour on the phone with me helping me grasp all the confusing aspects of commercial transport before I ever got started. He helped me tremendously. One of the key elements he explained to me was how maximum allowable towing weight is determined based on whether the driver has a CDL or not.

If what you are trying to sell were true why do cargo trailer manufacturers install brakes? In the case of new manufactured trailers gross loaded weight determines weight. That is because obviously the trailer is built to be loaded and pulled.

I have a Big Tex flat bed utility trailer I bought back in 1999. It is a tandem axle and weighs only 2200 lbs. empty (only a few hundred pounds heavier than the OP's trailer in this thread). It has brakes on one axle. I bought a tandem axle gooseneck hydraulic dump trailer three years ago to build and maintain driveways out here at my farmhouse. It weighs about 4,000 lbs. empty, maybe 4,400. I've forgotten what the scale tickets say. It has brakes on both axles. Would trailer manufacturers go to the expense to install brakes if they were not required? They could offer them as an extra cost option.

If what you are saying were true, which it is not, why would trailer manufacturers put brakes on either trailer? They each weigh less than 5,000 lbs. Why would a huge trailer manufacturer like Big Tex be required to install brakes but our op is not? Makes no sense to me.

Next time you travel down I-30 in east Texas and pass by Big Tex and another big working trailer manufacturer stop and look at the trailers. Even the small single axle trailers smaller than the OPs home built trailer have brakes.

 

[AClayton]

Oh Good lord! The OP and his trailer wouldn't even be considered worth it for a DOT officer to even be remotely interested in pulling him over..... let alone walking around and nit-picking. The entire load weighs less than a ton..... trailer included! If all you guys insist that it is even plausible that he would even be required to pull in a weigh station, then simply use another truck that doesn't have DOT stickers and placards pasted all over the side of it!

I agree... . the trailer 'looks' like it needs a little work. In most cases, a trailer tire or any tire fails due to heat build-up! I seriously doubt that the weight of a 1st gen truck cab is going to build much heat. The tires on that trailer are so grossly overkill for the weight of its load, that I doubt he would have any problems at all.

And Harvey... . How are you going to put electric brakes on a Chrysler 3/4 ton pickup truck axle?

In my younger yrs, I have towed worse looking crap down the road than that! I always made sure the lights worked and never got pulled over for the trailer being ugly... . just speeding! As usual, many of you over-analyze and seriously over-answer a seemingly easy question. To the OP: Make sure the lights work and the load is secured properly(like you already said it was) and just go!

Oh... . and even if a tire blew?? Ok... . just change it!!! Just change it! Not a big deal to replace a tire on the side of the road. I think we have all done it before! Some of you would put the fear of God into anyone that decided to pull a trailer down the road for fear a stupid DOT Cop would chase us down and delibrately nit-pick the hell of us for towing a damn trailer. I would pull that trailer across the Nation and back and be almost positive that I would NEVER even be remotely close to being pulled over... ..... with that load strapped in the back of it!

Make sure the lights work and carry a spare! GEEZ!

 

[HBarlow]

Oh Good lord! The OP and his trailer wouldn't even be considered worth it for a DOT officer to even be remotely interested in pulling him over..... let alone walking around and nit-picking. The entire load weighs less than a ton..... trailer included! If all you guys insist that it is even plausible that he would even be required to pull in a weigh station, then simply use another truck that doesn't have DOT stickers and placards pasted all over the side of it!

I agree... . the trailer 'looks' like it needs a little work. In most cases, a trailer tire or any tire fails due to heat build-up! I seriously doubt that the weight of a 1st gen truck cab is going to build much heat. The tires on that trailer are so grossly overkill for the weight of its load, that I doubt he would have any problems at all.

And Harvey... . How are you going to put electric brakes on a Chrysler 3/4 ton pickup truck axle?

In my younger yrs, I have towed worse looking crap down the road than that! I always made sure the lights worked and never got pulled over for the trailer being ugly... . just speeding! As usual, many of you over-analyze and seriously over-answer a seemingly easy question. To the OP: Make sure the lights work and the load is secured properly(like you already said it was) and just go!

Oh... . and even if a tire blew?? Ok... . just change it!!! Just change it! Not a big deal to replace a tire on the side of the road. I think we have all done it before! Some of you would put the fear of God into anyone that decided to pull a trailer down the road for fear a stupid DOT Cop would chase us down and delibrately nit-pick the hell of us for towing a damn trailer. I would pull that trailer across the Nation and back and be almost positive that I would NEVER even be remotely close to being pulled over... ..... with that load strapped in the back of it!

Make sure the lights work and carry a spare! GEEZ!

How much commercial hauling experience do you have, Alan? How many DOT officers have you met and talked with? You have no idea what commercial hauling requires.

If the op was a serious builder selling legal trailers that could meet DOT inspection requirements and be legally registered and used he would have to install Dexter or other electric brake axles on them.

 

[AClayton]

How much commercial hauling experience do you have, Alan? How many DOT officers have you met and talked with? You have no idea what commercial hauling requires.

If the op was a serious builder selling legal trailers that could meet DOT inspection requirements and be legally registered and used he would have to install Dexter or other electric brake axles on them.

Yup Harvey!..... you got me... . I have no experience with commercial hauling requirements. BUT..... when you transporting a few yrs ago, RV's were hot and moving all over the Nation and DOT police kind of kept a keen eye out for them. Meaning... ... YOU were scrutinized with a fine tooth comb. Are you telling me that if I hook up that trailer to my truck and tow it from coast to coast, I would get pulled over by the cops? I seriously doubt that! Why would that trailer even consider you to even pull into the weigh station... . even a DOT truck like yours or even Gary's?

The only difference is maybe... ... ... just maybe... ... the DOT enforces a little more laws out west due to the extreme grades. I don't know. I drive a truck for my company everyday that weighs over 10k lbs and I got tired of pulling into the scales and them just waving me through. So I stopped pulling in about 3 yrs ago... ... have yet to be stopped since!

Again... . I would pull that trailer and seriously doubt that I would ever be pulled over.

 

[NIsaacs]

If the op was a serious builder selling legal trailers that could meet DOT inspection requirements and be legally registered and used he would have to install Dexter or other electric brake axles on them.

Just for kicks I went to Parker Performance Trailers web site, Mt. Pleasant, Tx. They have a dozen single and tandem axle trailers all the way up to 7700 lb gvw, all are without brakes. One or two brakes are optional...



Big Tex is more responsible with at least one axle brake on their light duty tandem axle trailers but offer about 10 or 12 small single axle trailers for golf carts and quads, 2995 gvw with no brakes... .



Nick

 

[Bob4x4]

I have always built my own trailers,from big enclosed box trailers to flatbeds for hauling sand toys. The light ones do not get brakes the heavy one do. I have never been pulled over in any of them. Every trailer I have built would stand up to a dot inspection. I ran a good size fleet for years at the time the CHP started with the Bts program. The dirt haulers were the biggest target for comercial haulers here because in most cases they never saw the scales. Who knows maybe the OPs trailer is well built and safe

 

[RVTRKN]

DOT & MC numbers on the tow vehicle will attract attention if going through scales with that trailer, but in CA pickups aren't allowed in scales.

 

[GAmes]

Harvey, that old flatbed of mine you keep referencing is titled and tagged for 14,000 lbs and would pass any DOT inspection. As long as the weight remains under 14,000 there would not be a problem, per the reg that I posted. It had load rand E tires on it when I bought it, but I put a set of load range Gs on it. That doesn't change how much I can load on it. I provided the reference to how it's weight would be calculated to find GCWR if I were to be inspected.



You keep talking about DOT's 5000 lb this and that (with no FMCSA references)"If the trailer being towed does not have a factory GVWR tag the weight is determined by carrying capacity of the tires" and "If you read through DOT regulations you'll find numerous references to 5,000 lbs. /wheel, 20,000 lbs. /axle, 40,000 lbs. / tandem pair. THAT is the way DOT determines weight in the absence of a weight sticker if a driver does not have a CDL A. " Show Me, I'd love to learn something!



We are talking about a loaded trailer under 3000 lbs which I also provided a reference to. Lots of cargo trailers are built without brakes, I have a 4X12 enclosed, single axle, no brakes, with load range C tires on it built by Wells Cargo. The VIN tag shows a GVWR of 2990. Using your logic, if I install load range E tires on it I would have to put brakes on it too because the tires are rated for more than 3000 lbs. Your trailers have brakes because the manufacturers build them for the purpose of hauling loads that make the total weight over 3000 pounds. That doesn't apply to the homebuild in this thread. If ID licensed it, then it complies with whatever laws apply to it.



I have had lots of inspections and every time came away with an atta boy sticker. The times I did operate as an outlaw I relied on my knowledge of the regs to complete the delivery. I know when a CDL is required, and again, it has nothing to do with pulling the OP's trailer.