Smarty jr...40-70hp will I kill my stock trans?

[Bouma]

Looking to order a smarty jr this week. Looking for a little more power towing. However in another post I have up it was stated that I better plan to get a new trans soon if I run it? I am not looking to race this truck. If I wanted to race I would own a racecar. My truck is a truck. I use it to haul things and tow trailers. Not real heavy trailers, 6-8 thousand pounds. SO I thought before I do this I would ask, will this kill my trans? I know my foot plays a big role. So lets assume that I control my foot and do exactly what I say..... will I kill my trans with 40-70 hp in a jr? On Madds site they state it was designed for stock trucks. In my younger dumber years I would have killed the trans for sure. This truck now spends its days hauling my daughter around, moving atv's, going to the grocery store, my wife driving it to work, etc. Damn that was depressing (make a guy feel old typing that) Anyways as usual thanks for your thoughts...

 

[AH64ID]

With the proper settings and a smart right foot you shouldn't have an issue.

I would set it on SW1 TM2 TQ4 and PoD 90 and see how you like it. It will wake up the mid section for towing, but not the bottom end enough to hurt anything (with a smart foot).

 

[Bob4x4]

It is not the HP that kills the trans it is the torque. Double the HP nber and you will have a rough estimate of the torque gain

 

[SierraRam]

The 48RE is already borderline in its capability to hold the power/TQ while towing. Adding HP/TQ will decrease the life expectancy, even if you don't race, towing puts additional stress on the transmission. If you have to drive it easy why add power? With a little investment you can improve the capability of the 48RE to hols additional power. A good torque converter, valve body and upgraded clutches will work well with a Smarty Jr.

 

[Bouma]

The 48RE is already borderline in its capability to hold the power/TQ while towing. Adding HP/TQ will decrease the life expectancy, even if you don't race, towing puts additional stress on the transmission. If you have to drive it easy why add power? With a little investment you can improve the capability of the 48RE to hols additional power. A good torque converter, valve body and upgraded clutches will work well with a Smarty Jr.

Just spoke with HTS on what it would cost me to upgrade my trans. I am looking at $4000. 00 round numbers to change the converter to a triple disk, new imput shaft, flexplate, pan, valve body, etc

Thinking... .

 

[cerberusiam]

If all you are looking for is enough to handle a SJr, those parts are over kill. Given your trans is in good shape now, a single disk billet cover TC plus a shift kit plus about 4 small parts is all you need.

Total cost should be less than $1000 for the parts. However much somebody wants to install it is the question.

You don't need a triple disk TC, you don't need a billet input (nice to have if want to drop the $$), you don't need a flex plate, you don't need a deeper pan. All this stuff is nice to have if you want to drop the $$ but far from neccessary.

 

[Bouma]

If all you are looking for is enough to handle a SJr, those parts are over kill. Given your trans is in good shape now, a single disk billet cover TC plus a shift kit plus about 4 small parts is all you need.

Total cost should be less than $1000 for the parts. However much somebody wants to install it is the question.

You don't need a triple disk TC, you don't need a billet input (nice to have if want to drop the $$), you don't need a flex plate, you don't need a deeper pan. All this stuff is nice to have if you want to drop the $$ but far from neccessary.

You know the conversation turned that way. He asked if you don't have the jr now why not buy a sr? I told him I don't want to hurt anything. We talked back and forth and I asked about the upgrades. He didn't push them. I spoke with Dusty Hawk of HTS, Great guy, I will bring my truck to have my trans done there once I decide how deep I want to dig into my wallet or how deep my wife will let me.

 

[DaveHess]

Bouma: I have a had a Smarty Jr for about 3 or 4 years now. I left all the settings on default and put PoD at 99. I baby this truck and have not had a single problem with my 48RE with the exception of needing to change out the Governor solenoid because the truck would hang up in first gear. Otherwise I change the fluid and filter every 25K. I tow at about 17,080 pounds GCW. As for the PoD setting at 99, that's where the judicious use of the right foot comes in.

 

[Bouma]

Bouma: I have a had a Smarty Jr for about 3 or 4 years now. I left all the settings on default and put PoD at 99. I baby this truck and have not had a single problem with my 48RE with the exception of needing to change out the Governor solenoid because the truck would hang up in first gear. Otherwise I change the fluid and filter every 25K. I tow at about 17,080 pounds GCW. As for the PoD setting at 99, that's where the judicious use of the right foot comes in.

Thats great to hear! Are you happy with the jr? How about your exhaust? How loud is it when towing that much weight? I have a few post up currently asking about these things.

 

[Bob4x4]

The o3 has less power than the 06 by a considerable amount,,,,,,

 

[Bouma]

The o3 has less power than the 06 by a considerable amount,,,,,,

Very true, didn't think about that... . I owned an 03. Still I would think with a smarty they would be similar? No?

 

[Bob4x4]

No not in my experience. My 05 iS much more than any of the 03's I have worked on (smartyed)

 

[JJPage]

The o3 has less power than the 06 by a considerable amount,,,,,,

Bob, I will respectfully disagree, a considerable amount...

Very true, didn't think about that... . I owned an 03. Still I would think with a smarty they would be similar? No?

If both trucks have similar components and are equally Smarty'd, they will be very close in hp/tq. Neither truck's stock trans(47/48 RE) will last as long with a Smarty, as without.

Jess

 

[JJPage]

No not in my experience. My 05 iS much more than any of the 03's I have worked on (smartyed)

Not doubting your experience, proved it here many times. There are so many different Smarty tunes and variables involved, that I believe you've just been exposed to sadly tuned 03's.

 

[AH64ID]

The 05 will make more power than the 03 on the same smarty setting, just the nature of the beast and modified tunes.

As for the PoD setting at 99, that's where the judicious use of the right foot comes in.

PoD99 and PoD85 make the same power thru redline, the difference is the sensitivity of the pedal. With the PoD on 85 it's easier to be light on the pedal, but with an auto you may feel it in delayed shifting, so PoD 90 seems to be a nice happy medium for auto's, while PoD85 works great for manual trans trucks.

 

[JJPage]

The 05 will make more power than the 03 on the same smarty setting, just the nature of the beast and modified tunes.

So... you're saying if you build a smarty tune specifically to perform on an 03/04, then you load that tune to an 04. 5+ truck, the 04. 5+ will automatically make more power? I can't agree with that, been at enough dyno events where my 03 has hung right with or exceeded 04. 5+ trucks with similar modifications. I am not saying Bob or you are wrong, just saying I disagree, even without UDC, I believe there are enough tune-able options in the Smarty, that there is not a "considerably gain" for the 04. 5+ trucks.

Gotta go, Gonzaga is playing Southern!

Jess

 

[cerberusiam]

As for the PoD setting at 99, that's where the judicious use of the right foot comes in.

... and I mananged to kill the direct clutches in about 40k with a Smarty on mostly SW3. No matter how judicious the use of the right foot is once you set the it up to where it runs good with TQ management reduction it is hammering the direct clutch pack constantly. The TQ rise at low rpms and low stock pressures is abusive even with good driving habits, it is the reason it is turned so low on stock fueling programs. TQ3 is death to stock manual clutches and auto direct clutch packs, TQ2 not as much but it is still worrying away at it.

The ability to reduce the TQ management and get the truck rolling is one of Smarty's best features, and, the worst thing for the stock trans components.

 

[AH64ID]

So... you're saying if you build a smarty tune specifically to perform on an 03/04, then you load that tune to an 04. 5+ truck, the 04. 5+ will automatically make more power? I can't agree with that, been at enough dyno events where my 03 has hung right with or exceeded 04. 5+ trucks with similar modifications. I am not saying Bob or you are wrong, just saying I disagree, even without UDC, I believe there are enough tune-able options in the Smarty, that there is not a "considerably gain" for the 04. 5+ trucks.

Gotta go, Gonzaga is playing Southern!

Jess

What I am saying is if you take a S06 and tune an 03 with SW9 defaults and an 05 SW9 with defaults the 05 will make more power.

 

[JJPage]

What I am saying is if you take a S06 and tune an 03 with SW9 defaults and an 05 SW9 with defaults the 05 will make more power.

AH64ID, I'm just not buying this as fact, maybe a highly regarded myth... . Still too many variables, are the CP3's on both trucks equal, clean fuel/filters, air intake restrictions, I mean I could go on and on. I agree it's been said 04. 5+ trucks make power easier, said it myself in the past, just not agreeing with a blanket statement that newer 3rd gens make considerable more power than the early 3rd gens. With an Arson III kit on my CP3, it still makes more power on SW7 than on SW9, just doesn't have the resource to match the demand, so in my mind your example, and I'm not sure where you saw this take place, was an equal comparison.



You have to know I respect all your efforts on filters, and UDC, contributions to Forums in general, Just disagreeing on this one.



The only advantage the 05 has, and it may be enough... is it's narrower injector spray angle, allowing a bit more increased timing in the early rpm range. The 03 has a more efficient cam, superior designed pistons, the major difference is the software programming. Now a default Smarty tune may be more advantageous to an 05 IDK, I have been able to tune my 03 with the options allowed w/S06, to compete with the later 3rd gens using the same programming, If I had more knowledge with UDC, I'm confident my truck would still be competitive with a later 3rd gen, similar mods.



Jess

 

[AH64ID]

The 03 might have a more efficient cam, but the part numbers are the same and the difference is often disputed. Some say they have seen a difference, and others (to include some of the better regarded cam folks in the business) say they are the same. In any event the cam that came in my 05 has mid/low power robbing issues, not peak power. With a mild cam and a truck that isn't over-fueled to start with there is very little peak gain in power.

The 03 does have a much better piston design, in terms of reliability, but I have heard the 04. 5 design makes power easier, so I am not sold on that one yet, but I will ditch my 04. 5+ design if ever given the opportunity.

As you said the programming is the difference, the 04. 5-07 programming lends itself to more power with the same tuning software changes.

Yes there are lots of variables, but for argument sake lets assume two brand new trucks, all operating withing spec and all on the same components. Put the same tune in both and see what happens, the 05 will make more power. Is it considerable? Probably not more than 30/60 but hard to say without doing it.

I am not putting the 03's down in any way, in fact I want the early pistons/nozzles. I realize you have an 03 and I have an 05, so we are inherently biased, but I am trying to talk without being biased. If I were to build a race motor I would use 03/04 pistons/nozzles 04. 5+ head, and an aftermarket cam. . so a mix of everything.

I am not sure its the nozzle that can accept the early timing or the tuning. I know a guy who runs 03/04 stuff in his 05 motor with 05 style tuning and no issues, but when he swapped it into an 03 with 03 ECM the truck got noisy and took a mid range timing modification, without any motor changes other than ECM.


You should dable in UDC. My truck ran great with the box tune, now it runs amazing. It's not too hard, but if you don't want to tune it yourself custom tunes are fairly reasonable.