Straight scoop, What are the differences in a 3/4 and a 1 ton chassis/ suspension?

[Sarge]

I was recently at a RV dealer looking at new 5vers. One I really liked was 40' long, and a bit heavy for my 08' 2500 SRW LB auto 2X and 3. 57 gears. This sparked a whole line of conversation with the dealer where he was willing to pay for enhancements to my 2500 to carry the additional load. I wound up walking away from it, I just didn't feel right about all the changes.



But that did bring a question to mind. I have heard several claims from everything from only 1 more leaf in the suspension, to entire new gears, axles and spring packs make up the difference. So the question is, what is the difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton P/U both equipped exactly the same. Like mine for instance. Mine is a QC Long bed, Tow Package, and Big Horn trim package.



What do you say guys??

 

[Cummins12V98]

Rear springs

 

[Road Dog]

Same frame, same brakes, same drive train. The springs are different. For a 40' 5ver you won't find tires or rims that can carry the load. That's why they make a dually. Up here you can't change the GVW of a vehicle unless a commercial truck builder does the work and signs off on it.

 

[NIsaacs]

But that did bring a question to mind. I have heard several claims from everything from only 1 more leaf in the suspension, to entire new gears, axles and spring packs make up the difference. So the question is, what is the difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton P/U both equipped exactly the same. Like mine for instance. Mine is a QC Long bed, Tow Package, and Big Horn trim package.



What do you say guys??

Are you asking about the difference in an '08 or the new 13's?



Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

Sarge, that was a smart decision on your part, what a jerk of a salesman to try to line his pocket with your safety margin at risk. I don't think you could have hitched that 5ver up to your 2500, even at the advertised dry weight, and stay within the axle ratings, that you can't legally load over that rating. All of the aftermarket suspensions in the industry can't change the axle ratings on your truck.

 

[Sarge]

I am talking the 08' model year. So the axle's are the same on the two trucks?

 

[Wertles]

Disclaimer: this information is for a third gen truck. The latest 4th gen trucks have more differences than what I am listing.



The axle weight ratings are the same (approx 10,000 pounds give or take) between the 2500 and 3500. The biggest limiting factor is your tire weight capacity, around 3000 pounds each with a standard E rated tire. I ran into that issue with my 3500 SRW. In order for me to safely tow my 43 foot 5er, I needed to upgrade to 19. 5 inch tires. The steel rims and tire combo is rated for 5000 pounds each, essentially now matching the axle and tire ratings. You can always add additional leaf springs or air bags to help the rear suspension out. I added air bags to mine and it made a great improvement. Your rear end gear ratio is not ideal for a heavy trailer. Adding 19. 5 tires only makes that worse. I have 4. 10 on mine, the 19. 5 changes it closer to 3. 89 because of the taller diameter. A Smarty Jr. in the tow mode will help a bit to overcome that. My truck with 19. 5, air bags, Smarty Jr and Max Brake tows my 18,000 pound trailer better than my all stock truck did with my 10,000 previous trailer.

 

[Sarge]

I have no desire to tow or own anything that heavy. I was just amazed by the determination of the salesman to sell me a rig that heavy. That's is what brought to mind the question, what is the REAL differences in the two truck platforms. Not what some commission based salesman wants to tell you. And by rear springs, I assume you mean "leafs". I currently have 3 leafs, and one overload leaf in the suspension.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

In 2013, the differences between 2500 and 3500 are major. In prior years, less so, but you can still get boned if you exceed GVW or GCWR and have an accident.

 

[RVTRKN]

Disclaimer: this information is for a third gen truck. The latest 4th gen trucks have more differences than what I am listing.



The axle weight ratings are the same (approx 10,000 pounds give or take) between the 2500 and 3500. The biggest limiting factor is your tire weight capacity, around 3000 pounds each with a standard E rated tire. I ran into that issue with my 3500 SRW. In order for me to safely tow my 43 foot 5er, I needed to upgrade to 19. 5 inch tires. The steel rims and tire combo is rated for 5000 pounds each, essentially now matching the axle and tire ratings. You can always add additional leaf springs or air bags to help the rear suspension out. I added air bags to mine and it made a great improvement. Your rear end gear ratio is not ideal for a heavy trailer. Adding 19. 5 tires only makes that worse. I have 4. 10 on mine, the 19. 5 changes it closer to 3. 89 because of the taller diameter. A Smarty Jr. in the tow mode will help a bit to overcome that. My truck with 19. 5, air bags, Smarty Jr and Max Brake tows my 18,000 pound trailer better than my all stock truck did with my 10,000 previous trailer.

Tire ratings only matter if under axle rating you can still get fines going over axle ratings. You might get away with it, but it doesn't mean it's legal.

 

[RustyJC]

At the end of the day, you can't change that sticker on the driver's door jamb. That is what defines the GAWRs and GVWR.

Rusty

 

[Bob4x4]

Sarge don't drive a new 13 3500-you will drive it home. I drove 2 today 1 2by and a 4x4. They are way to smooth,quiet,and powerful with better mpg than the previous 6. 7's

 

[Sarge]

I would love to Bob, If I had an extra $50K laying around!

 

[GAmes]

At the end of the day, you can't change that sticker on the driver's door jamb. That is what defines the GAWRs and GVWR.

The axle weight rating on my door jam says "with tires LT215/85D" Since I have load range E tires that makes the door sticker moot. For the record, none of the commercial inspectors that have given me level one (or any other level) inspections has ever looked at the door sticker. During my last inspection I was over GVWR by 500 and RAWR by 1000. It was a horse trailer with a large living area in the front.

 

[GAmes]

... ..... but you can still get boned if you exceed GVW or GCWR and have an accident.

Is this the internet myth that if you exceed the weights your insurance company might not cover you? Think about this. There are no laws in the US against exceeding the GVWR, GCWR or the axle weight ratings assigned by the pickup manufacturers. If there were, there wouldn't be any hotshots pulling 20,000 pounds (or more) across DOT's scales, then getting a green light. It is illegal, however, to drive under the influence. If you wreck your vehicle while drunk they will pay. So, doesn't it sound a little goofy that insurance companies can deny a claim for a wreck when you aren't breaking any law but will pay when you are?

 

[Road Dog]

Not true. You can't exceed the GVW, GAWR, tire rating or licensed weight. The first two are listed on the door jamb, the next on the tires and the last on the registration. The GCWR is only listed in the sales brochure and doesn't count for much.

 

[NIsaacs]

Not true. You can't exceed the GVW, GAWR, tire rating or licensed weight. The first two are listed on the door jamb, the next on the tires and the last on the registration. The GCWR is only listed in the sales brochure and doesn't count for much.

In Canada it might be more controlled but here not so much. I really doubt a DOT guy will care if you are driving an older dually rated for 10,000 GVW or a '13 rated for 14,000 GVW. My old '74 Ford dually is rated for 10,000 GVW, no GAW's listed. When I used it commercially I had it licensed for 34,000 and hauled all over the west. If I was 34,001 in my home state, I was in trouble, but not out of state. My '01 2500 is licensed for 16,000.



Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

You can't exceed the GAWR (AXLE) front or rear, just because you put on higher load rated tires don't enhance the designed braking power for the GAWR!

 

[GAmes]

Not true. You can't exceed the GVW, GAWR, tire rating or licensed weight. The first two are listed on the door jamb, the next on the tires and the last on the registration. The GCWR is only listed in the sales brochure and doesn't count for much.

That is why I specified"in the US". I am aware of BC laws. Here, the only part you got right is licensed weight, and that isn't inclusive. As Nick stated, it is only enforcable in the state you are registered in.

Do you think the GVWR and GAWR are not exeeded on this car hauler?

 

[NIsaacs]

If there are no GAWR's listed, how is the rating determined?

Nick