The latest and greatest info on my transmission problem

[Bug Out]

I got a call from Customer Assistance Center today and they are "opening my case back up"... . No reason why. They were quick to close it when I told them I was not interested in a fishing expedition inside the transmission. If you know what it is, thats fine (after consideration of some here and other sources). Now my curiosity is peaking wondering why they are back in the game... .

I hope this is not the "Dear John"crew... . LOL

 

[Steve Martin]

Bug Out... . When you say “Flare up”, what do you mean??? Are you referring to a “slipping” in the the transmission??? My 2013 2500 CTD with 4500 miles seems to “slip” or the RPM’s seem to increase a little before going into the next gear. I notice it when getting on the freeway with moderate acceleration. I just assumed this is what the transmission is suppose to do. Not sure if I have the same problem you have. Sorry for coming in at the end of your forum, but if you could let me know in a nut shell what exactly what yours was doing, I could see if thats the same on mine... . Thanks Steve

 

[Bug Out]

Somebody on here referred to it as a "flare" in RPMS which is what it is. I had a brand new 2012 RAM 3500 dually with the same engine and trans, 68 RFE that did not "flare" in RPMS between shifts. IMHO, thats not normal at all. What it does is in 4gear, the trans goes into TCL ( Torque converter lock in 4th) then goes out of TCL to upshift to 5th as it does in 6th also. It should go out of TCL, upshift, then TCL again with no noticable "flare" as I have. On mine, I can see the tach go up 2-400 RPM and hear the engine RPM's go up, unlike my 2012 which did not do this.

Mine will do it in Tow Haul which has TCL in 3rd gear I believe to 4th gear too. Again, had my 2012 done this, you would not heard a peep out of me. But the second I drove it down the street from my driveway( bought from a AAA car broker-dont do it-big mistake) I knew something was wrong. I figured it was a simple "reflash" as all the shifting is electronically controlled.

Another guy I talked to back east is having shifting issues with his 2013 68 RFE which slams hard in down shift. He's in arbitration right now lemon law. His sound like a shift issues but no one would even help him. I feel lucky a few folks our helping. Another issues brought to my attention was 2013 Caravans trannies apparently when down shifting, dont come out of TCL soon enough or dont drop into 1st gear soon enough and cause the engine to die. . All of it sounds like a simple reprogram of shifting patterns. My trans does not appear to slip, but the gap in shift time in TC-UL unlock is too long. I'm guessing at this point. Hopefully its a easy fix for me. Hope I didnt bend you ear too much. .

 

[Steve Martin]

Bug Out, I am not sure if mine is locking or unlocking, but my RPM's do increase between shifts. I am not sure if this is normal or not. Like I said, I notice it mostly when entering the freeway. Has there been any service bulletins on it yet?? Next time i drive mine I will pay more attention to the shifting. Not sure if its something I need to take in or not. Thanks

 

[Bug Out]

Listen to the shifts when it gets into 4th gear, the it drops about 500 rpm. Thats when its in TCL. 1-2-3 dont drop rpms until you get to 4th in regular driving. TH(Tow Haul) is different.

 

[Steve Martin]

Are you saying this is normal?? It should go into TCL in 4th???

 

[Bug Out]

TCL is normal. In my case, it takes too long for the gap between 4th gear to 5th gear and I can hear the engine RPM's go up 2-400 rpms etc.

 

[AClayton]

My new 13' does this also but maybe not as noticeable as yours. I know exactly what you mean when you tromp on the go pedal with a full load and let the trans do its thing. IMO, that is one of my reasons for owning a CTD. To take advantage of all that low-end grunt and not race the engine to get up to spd. Which my guess is, that is how most uneducated people drive their trucks. Because that is how the transmission seems to work best... ... with the throttle slammed to the floor and transmission shifting at 2600rpm!

I came out of a modded 2nd gen for which I knew I was overloaded and always took it easy while towing my RV. The new 13' handles the weight so much better. I'm the guy that wants to take advantage of all that torque and use as little throttle as possible to get up to speed. That is my thrill of owning one for me! I really don't feel comfortable racing my CTD up a ramp at full load but that is precisely how these new trucks are programmed. And boy does this thing move when you vigorously apply the throttle; and the transmission seems to shift perfectly without a hiccup when matched with this style of driving. But you want to take it easy and gradually get up to speed, and the transmission almost seems confused. Since MY style pulling causes transmission issues, what I do is simple: I manually shift my transmission by toggling the upshift button. Works for me and I appear to get great mileage according to the lie-o-meter!

 

[Bob4x4]

Are you sure you are not just experiencing some torque management going on?Many of the new computer controlled transmissions will decrease torque at shift points to protect the drivetrain . This is very noticable on Caravans at full throttle accel.
Have you driven other CTDs with the same pkg you have?

 

[Bug Out]

ACLAYTON, that was the first and probably the last time I'll ever go full throttle on the truck with a load. Funny enough it did not flare under those conditions. I've always been a "easy on the drive train " person, as it cost less all around plus it lasts longer.

The 2012 68 RFE did not do this so I'm beginning to wonder if "Carloooos from Dell tech support" maybe signed on as a transmission shift pattern engineer this year. All kidding aside I love the truck, just need this obnoxious issue fixed.

 

[Bug Out]

BOB 4x4, no i have not. I have been contemplating doing that as the dealer I'm working with was not able to let me drive another 2013. Like I said before, had my 2012 RAM with the same engine and transmission done anything similar to this, I would not be here on this post. I drove my 2012 home(had 15K on the clock) from work and drove this one within a hour of signing papers and the first thing that jumped out at me was the flare it has, unlike the previous truck. Had I been able to see that I'd be here 4 months later talking about it ( and it was not going to be a re-flash as I originally thought) I would of had the broker take it back. My bad for going thru a broker in the first place.

Anyhow, depending on what I'm told is going to adjudicate this issue, I may wind up going to several dealers and driving several trucks, 2012, 2013's to do my own comparison. It very well could be my 2012 transmission was not "flaring" because IT was bad... I'm still waiting on the POD readout results to come back also.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't know anything about the new auto's but I do understand mechanical leverage. I would love to see one disassembled.



I wonder if the transmission is just trying to protect it'self. Since this transmission don't use bands (they lessen the shift impact) the converter needs to unlock to assist in this. Under full power it might do this so fast you don't feel it but at low speed/power you do. The Cummins engine has so much rotating mass that a too firm shift will break the transmission. Under full converter lock and no bands now, the only cushion left is the clutches. I think the "smart" transmission is thinking and doing what it is supposed to do..... Cerb? thoughts?



Nick

 

[Bug Out]

NIsaacs, but why not on the 2012, yet on the 2013. The only difference between the two years in 20 HP on the motor, torque same, new smog, DEF. I wonder if the Aisin's do this too?
.

 

[cerberusiam]

The Cummins engine has so much rotating mass that a too firm shift will break the transmission. Under full converter lock and no bands now, the only cushion left is the clutches. I think the "smart" transmission is thinking and doing what it is supposed to do.....

Yes, but, it should be smoother. The OP's description sounds like something is off just a little bit in in how the TCM is calculating the time to fill and apply the clutch packs and apply the lockup clutch. When it works right it is great, but, any little glitch in readings or calculations and you get what seems to be a problem when it is just timing on the trans operation.

I am watching closely to see if they can come up with something that shows wrong in the diagnostices and\or a mechnical fix that solves the problem. Its like the fan clutch shorting out can cause the engine to surge in such a way it will hurt the DMF. The problem may end up being something OTHER than the trans itself.

 

[Bug Out]

cerberusiam, I got a sneaking suspicion someone changed the trans shifting patterns for 2013 from 2012 for whatever reason and thats where this "flare"(I think delay in shift pattern)is coming from. Thats why I wasn't concerned at first. Reflash , bang done... . Wish I could see and talk to the guy/gal thats in charge of programing the computer shift control patterns to find out what if anything has changed from 2012 to 2013 and for what reason... .

For a person who has tinkered with automobiles since 1970, this quirk is like a needle in my eye every time it does this...

 

[cerberusiam]

Oh, it is entirely possible something changed from year to year in the programming. It is possible the change in programming introduced a new set of circumtances that cause it to manifest this behaviour. It is also possible that you got a bad ECU or a bad program load into it. The first year for anything ends shaking out the quirks and differences. If you could find 2 more 2013's in the same configuration that don't do what you describe its a good bet there is a glitch though. Not sure even the build engineers or area service reps understand all the potential problems that can happen. That has been proven the norm rather than the exception.

The potential points that could introduce this type of problem are many and as long as the transmission still works and there are no obviuos codes it is tough for service personnel to figure out what is wrong. All part of the problems with TQ management and complicated solenoid shifted transmissions.

 

[transe]

I checked with our calibration guys, and yes, there WAS a change between 2012 and 2013. The 2013 models will generally have more TCC separation (slip) during 4-5 and 5-6 upshifts than the 2102s did. Apparently this was done to give a smoother (less jerky) shift. Although obviously, not everyone prefers the "smoother" shift. But at least that explains what is probably going on with yours.



I am also told that there were some further changes made for 2014, which reduce the "flare" you are noticing. And there MAY be a service reflash coming (for 2013) that would include those changes. However, this is not a done deal yet, and if it's approved it still takes several months to get a new flash validated and distributed to the field, so unfortunately no "fix" is available at the moment. But wait a few months, and then check with your dealer to see if a reflash is available.

 

[Bug Out]

Thats good news. I will say the up shift and downshift under a load was more harsh with the 2012. This unit 2013 actually down shifts less then the 12' as I think the exhaust brake is much better and slows the truck faster.

if they could split the difference ( cut thd flare in half) in the change from the 12' to the 13' that would be perfect. At least now I don't have to be concerned to much with the flare or a rebuilt unit getting installed. At least there is light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully the tech advisor in Az gets this info to official channel s. Thanks.

 

[AClayton]

This thread has been very helpful and full of information. I noticed this issue also and just assumed that is what it is supposed to do. My 2013 only has 1200 miles so far but I absolutely love this truck over my 2nd Gen!!

 

[Bug Out]

TransEngineer, is it possible to upload or "reflash" the 2012 codes/shift patterns to the 2013?