1970, 335 Cummins, hp/tq v/s '01 5.9?

[NIsaacs]

The hp/tq ratings on our engines are not based off of a continuous duty cycle... . Pull one of our little 5. 9L engines over to full power on a dyno and leave it... . it wont take long to start having issues. It would be interesting to put the current GM and Ford offering along side the Cummins... Im 100% confident of the outcome, but the Ford and GM guys would cry foul... . Im not sure if there is an industry standard for the duty cycle of the large OTR engines, but I can tell you from experience that when we put one on an engine dyno, it would be pulled to rated hp/tq and left there for 4 hours. Non-highway and industrial diesels and NG engines are rated at 100% duty cycle. .

Yes, I think the duty cycle is like 30% in a boat and Dodge rates the engine at a higher rpm and hp then Cummins does. Cummins also rates the 5. 9 higher in medium duty use with an automatic v/s a standard rig. But with all that aside and just based on my '01 as it sits, will it run with the 855 at the same rating? It seems like it should if hp is hp and tq is tq. but I don't think it will.



Nick

 

[Wayne M.]

Nick, why do you doubt yourself? Did you read my comparison regarding the NHRA stockers? The big or small block will get the same job done, but the SB will be stressed more.

 

[NIsaacs]

Nick, why do you doubt yourself? Did you read my comparison regarding the NHRA stockers? The big or small block will get the same job done, but the SB will be stressed more.

I think it is the intimidation factor of the 80k big rig with my little motor



What you say makes sense tho because years ago I hauled some logging equipment from here (Snowflake AZ. ) to South Fork, Colo. with my Ford, (less power than my '01 Dodge) and out pulled my '83 Pete with a stock small cam 400 (855). It was under loaded and I was over loaded for the size of the rigs. I out pulled it on every hill until Wolf Creek and due to water temp, at about the 9 mile mark I had to drop one in the brownie and he finally caught and passed me right at the top.



Nick

 

[Wayne M.]

Yea, betcha the thermostat on the Pete wasn't even open yet. I look at the new cars and think about old American iron. A Nissan 4 is like 180-200 hp. You were lucky to see a number like that out of a smogger V8. Put both on dynos at 80% and see which lasts longer.....

 

[Wingate]

Horsepower and Torque curves identical?? Not just peak #'s... then yes, the load does not know whether the power comes from 200 cu. in. or 2000 cu. in... .
One would need to map the curves of the little 5. 9L and compare it to the 855. . if they are the same then the ability to pull will be the same.

 

[dusty1usa]

Never cared for the 335 its tapered nose crank shaft made is risky to put a bunch of HP to it fast without snapping off the harmonic balancer but I did like the idea of the pull type compression release to make starting cold easy.

BIG



STROKE LEAGTH IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE ,LIKE D4L SAID CUBIC INCHES

Had a '68 Freightliner cabover for several yrs. with that motor in it. Put about 600,000 on it and I bought it used with over 300,000 already on it. I did do an inframe major on it at 800,000 when some injector tubes started leaking. Had new injector tubes pressed in at the Cummins place and then while they were doing that I put in new liners, pistons, rod bearings etc.
Then I put an aftercooler on it and found a 400 pump and turbo and stuck those on there. It would pull right with a 425 cat in my buddies Petercar with the same loads on.
Put jakes on it with a three way switch. Could cut in one head, two or all three.
I did put a new balancer on the snout when I did the inframe.
Loved that truck.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wow, dredge spoil! This was a good thread.

Hey BIG, how did you ever make out with the IH truck project?

 

[NIsaacs]

Wow, dredge spoil! This was a good thread.

Yup, lot of oldies popping up lately, and I never did get an answer I could live with:-laf

Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

Interesting read for someone that never has been in that world of engines, but I'll compare apples to oranges here. I'd have to compare it to the big block vrs small block gas engines, you can build a small block to out perform a big block. But in the end, the big block will outlast the small blocks and with the right builders the big blocks will crap all over the small blocks, just look at NHRA.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Haven't thought about the OLD Come-a-parts in awhile

I really liked to play with the small cam versions, Cheap HP like a Chevy. The guy that lived next door to me in Calif (that seems like eons ago) was a bottom dump dirt hauler. The 60 Freeway was being built he was on the dirt removal trucking part of it. His pay was by the load so the faster he could make the round the more he made.

His problem he thought was that his truck had a Shiny 290 Cummins, he ran it so hard that it finally needed to be freshened up. The more that we got into it we found that a out of frame was about the only thing really going to work, So we pulled it.

We got it back together with some timing and pump, injector changes. On the flats that 290 would pull with any stock 400 and did pretty well in the hills but being that it was in an Iron Nose Pete didn't have enough radiator to keep it cool. We took a beer keg tapped a bung hole for a 12v water pump thru a water hose that surrounded the front of the eng cowl drilled holes in the hose so when the temp was starting to climb a flip of the switch sure worked wonders on the water temp. The other problem was that on a long up hill pull if an unconcerned driver kept his toes in the turbo a Nuclear Meltdown on the piston tops was sure to occur. He finally did aftercool the motor with a few more tweaks made it a really strong running small cam.

Those were the days that it was all Mechanical this computer crap is quick but took the fun out of the wrench.:-laf

 

[NIsaacs]

Interesting read for someone that never has been in that world of engines, but I'll compare apples to oranges here. I'd have to compare it to the big block vrs small block gas engines, you can build a small block to out perform a big block. But in the end, the big block will outlast the small blocks and with the right builders the big blocks will crap all over the small blocks, just look at NHRA.

I agree to some degree, however, you are only talking 100 cubes different. In my comparison we are talking 500 cubes different!!

Nick

 

[RVTRKN]

The reason being is the RPM the Detroit motors were like sitting on a GIANT blender I would not own one because you couldn't hear the radio if YOU WANTED TO. Leaking oil was a problem the joke was that you didn't have to change oil you just spin on a clean filter and KEEP ADDING OIL.

I thought you might like this video clip from Ice Road Truckers

http://youtu.be/Oo-DPmg_j5g

The guy that lived next door to me in Calif (that seems like eons ago) was a bottom dump dirt hauler. The 60 Freeway was being built he was on the dirt removal trucking part of it.

Its a small world, I wouldn't doubt that I saw him in his truck when he was working on the 60 freeway. I used to ride my bike in the construction zones, when I was 10, when they weren't working, as well as watching them while they built the 60.

 

[Wayne M.]

Really must have been a long day for that guy in the video! And that 'ol Detroit, no other sound. And yes how strange it is that they all sound alike weather 3 or 16 cyl.

 

[NIsaacs]

Really must have been a long day for that guy in the video! And that 'ol Detroit, no other sound. And yes how strange it is that they all sound alike weather 3 or 16 cyl.

Thanks for sharing the video, RV, love that sound! Almost as good as a 3rd gen with loud muffler or straight pipe. I always stop what I am doing and listen when they go by in the distance. My Ford sounds like a 3rd gen with the twin stacks and split tee that feeds them. My '91 and '01 just kinda sound raspy lol.

Nick

 

[Wayne M.]

Well Nick, the Ford FE has ITS own sound. Alls ya gotta do is watch the Mustang in "Bullitt" and hear that 390 vs. the 440 Charger, which has ITS own sound.

 

[mwilson]

Really must have been a long day for that guy in the video! And that 'ol Detroit, no other sound. And yes how strange it is that they all sound alike weather 3 or 16 cyl.

It was a long day. An 8V-71 coupled to a 13 speed Fuller Trans grossing 90,000 lbs + kept your right arm in motion all day long. On roads that looked very similar to the ones in the video only with more hills.......

 

[mwilson]

Thanks for sharing the video, RV, love that sound! Almost as good as a 3rd gen with loud muffler or straight pipe. I always stop what I am doing and listen when they go by in the distance. My Ford sounds like a 3rd gen with the twin stacks and split tee that feeds them. My '91 and '01 just kinda sound raspy lol.

Nick

The only one that sounds really different to me is the 6V-53. One of those in a truck would almost rupture an eardrum. The rest that I was around a lot such as the 8V-71, 6V-92, 8V-92, 6-71, 12V-71 sound roughly the same.

 

[BIGNASTY]

You could always tell the guys that ran Detroit's they were all greasy and YELLED AT THE WAITRESS IN THE COFFEE SHOP!! due to hearing loss.

 

[mwilson]

A real 2 Stroke driver had a black right palm because once the finish wore off of the 13 speed shift knob the sweat reacted with it......true story...

 

[BIGNASTY]

A real 2 Stroke driver had a black right palm because once the finish wore off of the 13 speed shift knob the sweat reacted with it......true story...



View attachment 94506

Its been a long long time but weren't the 95-13's & the 125-13's shifting knobs chrome metal with a Red selector switch?