Y-block Ford

[GAmes]

I finished putting together the 239 V8 for the '54 I am restoring. Filled it with oil, knocked the gear from distributor shaft and spun it with a drill. Only one head is getting oil. So I removed the offending head and shot some shop air into the oil passage in the block. Air exited the other side's oil squirters. Still no oil spinning the pump with the drill. Any body have a suggestion where to go from here?

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

I finished putting together the 239 V8 for the '54 I am restoring. Filled it with oil, knocked the gear from distributor shaft and spun it with a drill. Only one head is getting oil. So I removed the offending head and shot some shop air into the oil passage in the block. Air exited the other side's oil squirters. Still no oil spinning the pump with the drill. Any body have a suggestion where to go from here?

It's been more than a few decades since I touched a 239. Can't remember if this engine was one where the head gasket had only one direction it could be put on and would plug up the water and oil jackets if you chose the wrong position. Check the head gasket for the correct holes being completely punched out. Also, check the passage through the head for blockage. I assume since you have oil on one side and push air from the other that all the cam bearings are in place, aligned with the oil ports. And...which direction does the distributor rotate when running? Does the drill turn in the same direction? You got oil to one bank so I don't see the last item being an issue.

 

[GAmes]

The oil pump turns counter clockwise, reversible drill took care of that. My first thought was the head gasket, and yes they are directional. The only difference is a water jacket hole. I've been blowing air through an old block and determined just what you did, if the air from head to head goes across the cam bearing is in place. The passage in the head is clear. I have now removed all the plugs for the oil passages and can't find any blockage. This restoration was supposed to be a fun hobby.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

The oil pump turns counter clockwise, reversible drill took care of that. My first thought was the head gasket, and yes they are directional. The only difference is a water jacket hole. I've been blowing air through an old block and determined just what you did, if the air from head to head goes across the cam bearing is in place. The passage in the head is clear. I have now removed all the plugs for the oil passages and can't find any blockage. This restoration was supposed to be a fun hobby.

How about the rocker rail alignment...top/bottom, front/rear?

I found this Y block oil diagram which shows feeds to the rocker rails. Which head is not receiving its flow of precious car blood? I found a picture of a Y block oil system. It shows cam bearing 2 feeding the left bank from the main bearing 2 line, and cam bearing 4 feeding the right bank from the main bearing 4 line. Since you have things a bit more disassembled it may be more difficult to pressurize the system to see if the oil supply to the heads is showing up without the rocker rail in place. It's amazing how much oil will flow from any opened port and coat anything nearby, like the operator.

 

[GAmes]

I have the head removed. There isn't even a hint of oil coming from the passage out of the block. Somewhere is either a blockage or the drill doesn't spin fast enough to create volume. So I have just removed the rocker assy on the good side and will block the oil port when I go back at it. Fingers crossed.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

I did some editing of Post #4 and added an image of the oil system.
And, Good Luck!

 

[TFucili]

When we primed engines at my buddy's machine shop, we often had to slowly turn the crank to get oil to flow everywhere. Some engines took a while, and that was driving the pump with a big Milwaukee Hole Hog.

 

[Wayne M.]

I don’t know Ford Y engines, but I see the oiling diagram. Does the oil flow AROUND the cam (in a bearing groove)? Or THROUGH the cam (passages in the particular journal)?
All 60/70’s Mopar V8’s oil the banks through these passages in the cam, and the engine must be rotated while primed in order to oil both banks.
My hunch is that a cam bearing is not lined up properly.

 

[GAmes]

I have to agree with you Wayne. The diagram isn't the same as the 239, both banks get oil from the center cam bearing. I've pressurized the oil passage and both rocker ports. Air does not flow to the left port from the oil passage or from the oil passage to the left port. I've resigned myself to disassembling the engine. Either the cam bearing is installed wrong or there is a blockage. This is a NOS block that I bought, still in it's 1953 shipping crate and covered in cosmoline. So it is possible the machine shop didn't clean all the passages when it was vatted.

 

[Wayne M.]

Oh WOW that’s cool!
May I make a suggestion, and I beg your pardon if you’ve already did this. BUT did you do a mock up and check your deck height and attempt to calculate compression?
Reason I ask, is because I did basically the same thing with a warranty replacement brand new block I bought from a NOS parts supplier. I was looking for a good running engine, so I basically did a balance/ blueprint, and the piston was so far in the hole, I would have wound up with 7.0:1 (assembled as was) compression when I was figuring on 8.5 and looking for more.
A trip to my machine shop set me up for 10:1 and a fantastic running mill.

 

[GAmes]

No, didn't do a mock-up. I could do a modeling clay depth check now that the head is off. This engine was bought from a guy who bought out a bunch of old parts that a Ford dealer wanted out of it's parts room. He couldn't find a buyer, so offered it for the price of scrap metal. I didn't know what that would be, so I offered him $100. Of course, I had to drive to Iowa to get it.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

Found this article that sounds a lot like your issue. I think your blocked passage theory is on the mark.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/239-y-block-oil-diagram.402706/

 

[GAmes]

Thanks. It's amazing how much info is buried on the net.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

I don’t know Ford Y engines, but I see the oiling diagram. Does the oil flow AROUND the cam (in a bearing groove)? Or THROUGH the cam (passages in the particular journal)?
All 60/70’s Mopar V8’s oil the banks through these passages in the cam, and the engine must be rotated while primed in order to oil both banks.
My hunch is that a cam bearing is not lined up properly.

Wayne,

From what I can remember is these engines had a grooved cam bearing. Due to the oils of the day - mostly non-detergent - and questionable maintenance practices, the oil passages would gunk up with paraffin and cause serious oil pressure issues. I can't say for sure if the 239 had the drilled cam or if that came later in the 292/312 series, or at all in this series. I remember a "quick fix" from JC Whitney and many auto parts houses was an external upper end lube/oil bypass setup which would bypass the internal plumbing to the rocker rails. Cheaper than a rebuild and cleanout of the internal passages. For those who went the rebuild route there were cam bearings with a modified/deeper groove that would not clog as easily as well as better oils, with detergents added, recommended. That was a long time ago. All I remember is the external kits would eventually spring leaks and leave a mess. Easy fix though.

 

[Wayne M.]

PBJ, you’re right. I know the upper oiling clog was an issue on the ‘60’s 144 in-line 6, I’ve seen the kit for that. Another engine that suffered badly from clogged pushrods (and top end oil starvation) was the Olds V8 up until its demise in 1987.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

Thanks. It's amazing how much info is buried on the net.

I read that the 239 Y block was a one year (54) only engine. You will definitely have one sweet ride when this "fun hobby" makes it to the road on its own.
While you have the head off have you checked the oil groove in the heads to see if the groove requires enlargement if the head has been machined as mentioned in the article?
This thread has retrieved some krusty, dusty, cob-webby memory pieces-parts from the 60's for me.

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks. It's amazing how much info is buried on the net.

Hang in there. You’re going to have a sweet ride when it’s done. What else is in store? Have any time period speed parts?

 

[GAmes]

The grooves in the heads look good. I'm trying to do as close to original as possible, so no hot rod parts. 6 volt, positive ground. And yes, the 239 was a one year engine. I've done a few customs and I've found that restoration is a lot harder. It's still not going to be perfect. It came with power seats and power windows, there are no window motors to be found anywhere so it will have crank windows. Still working on the two motors for the power seats, so it's a maybe there. I'm also trying to find a two groove crankshaft pulley because it came with power steering which apparently was a rare option. I have everything but a pulley. Since I've already completely rebuilt the front end I would hate to have to do another with out PS. I have a couple of parts cars without PS and almost everything is different. This is the before starting work on it and where I am now.

 

[GAmes]

Forgot to mention, the original engine has grooves in the cam bearings. I have other commitments and might not get this one apart for a couple weeks to see what it has.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

The grooves in the heads look good. I'm trying to do as close to original as possible, so no hot rod parts. 6 volt, positive ground. And yes, the 239 was a one year engine. I've done a few customs and I've found that restoration is a lot harder. It's still not going to be perfect. It came with power seats and power windows, there are no window motors to be found anywhere so it will have crank windows. Still working on the two motors for the power seats, so it's a maybe there. I'm also trying to find a two groove crankshaft pulley because it came with power steering which apparently was a rare option. I have everything but a pulley. Since I've already completely rebuilt the front end I would hate to have to do another with out PS. I have a couple of parts cars without PS and almost everything is different. This is the before starting work on it and where I am now.View attachment 108892View attachment 108893

Sweet! OH MY...And it's a Skyliner to boot! One of my favorites!