CP 4-2 Injection

[JTitone]

I’m reading through my edition TDR 106 “The Rest of the Story” on the subject of Bosch Fuel Injection Pumps. It states that the CP4-2 used on the 6.7 CGI engine is priced at $6,260. Then the injectors for that engine are $2,465 each. This means that if you were to experience a catastrophic failure of the Injection pump and the injectors after warranty expires then you’re looking at a repair bill of approximately $22K just for parts. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to buy one of these trucks knowing there’s a potential expense like this down the road. A friend of mine with a ford equipped with a Bosch CP4 had his Injection pump self destruct taking with it all his injectors. His repair bill was over $10K. I was considering purchasing a new Cummins powered Ram but now I have my reservations.

 

[Signal73]

I’m not so sure of the accuracy of those prices, and with that being said CP 4.2 failures don’t seem to be happening.

 

[R.Taylor]

Don't deprive yourself of a new truck solely based on the inflated prices of parts that you will most likely never need to replace. My 19' 3500 Megacab is tits, 2000+ miles and it purrs like a kitten and pulls like a SOB. Those prices are nonsense, a box of parts is not 1/3rd the value of the entire truck.... In a year or so those prices will be 50% lower or more and go lower as time goes on. The sticks will always be expensive but I'm sure the CP4.2 pump will settle down around a grand or so. If you're in doubt.... Get a MaxCare extended warranty and if your a smooth talker like some here.... Maybe they'll throw in a 7/100 for free.

 

[Ozymandias]

And 5 years warranty right?

 

[Tuesdak]

Do you really "need" a diesel? Otherwise TCO of a gas engine is simply cheaper. MPG towing with higher diesel fuel cost is where you can justify breaking even with a diesel. Preference is "pay to play with diesel" anymore.

The TDR article is a very poor one and everyone is all "Trust US" but take it or leave it with no substance to answer the question and concerns at hand. The author admits they don't "get it" as to our concerns and maybe ought to figure out how to at least "fake it" and provide some good answers. We are left to watch history make or repeat itself with near zero facts that say otherwise to make an informed decision. If the current lawsuit forces Cummins and Bosch to keep quiet about improvements they can at least admit it.

In several pages of posts someone did throw out some improvements while shaking their head at concerns. Shrug: It's got a proven bad reputation what's so hard to understand about that especially with no answers as to why it shouldn't continue to have a bad rep.

If you look you will see diesel carnage all over the place from all OEM's. The main concern is how to cover an expensive fuel system that may not be under warranty due to bad fuel. Keep fuel station receipts as they and your insurance company will be the next battles you will have. Any fuel system will fail say if the delivery driver to the station mixes up diesel and gasoline because the station owner lets the paint on the tank fills fade away.

 

[jhenderson]

Maybe “ They” don’t get it because the reported failures are at least several years old.

 

[Newsa]

I’m reading through my edition TDR 106 “The Rest of the Story” on the subject of Bosch Fuel Injection Pumps. It states that the CP4-2 used on the 6.7 CGI engine is priced at $6,260. Then the injectors for that engine are $2,465 each. This means that if you were to experience a catastrophic failure of the Injection pump and the injectors after warranty expires then you’re looking at a repair bill of approximately $22K just for parts. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to buy one of these trucks knowing there’s a potential expense like this down the road. A friend of mine with a ford equipped with a Bosch CP4 had his Injection pump self destruct taking with it all his injectors. His repair bill was over $10K. I was considering purchasing a new Cummins powered Ram but now I have my reservations.

More and more Ram dealers are saying that they service ford, mazda, vw, GM, volvi and other makes.
I think this is true across the board. Since ford has been using the CP4-2 for years. You could actually get it serviced where the parts prices are cheaper.
For example, there are likely ford dealers in your area that could get the same parts cheaper?

Or.... Would even a Ford dealer service dept need to use the Chrysler Part #?????

 

[AH64ID]

Just like the CP3’s were different between the duramax and Cummins, the CP4’s aren’t interchangeable.

 

[TFucili]

Twenty minutes ago, the post below appeared on another forum. May well be a troll. No details, or verification, and no idea why a complete engine replacement is being talked about, but...

I'm curious if anyone has had a fuel system problem with a 2019 Ram? My brand new 2019 Ram with 245 miles is sitting in the shop, apparently in need of a new motor, due to a catastrophic fuel system failure. Is this problem affecting anyone else? I am told by the mechanic at the dealership that the CP4 fuel pump has apparently failed and the fix is Chrysler FCA sending a new motor. Waiting to hear more on Monday after the dealership contacts the engineers and starts what they referred to as a "STAR" case.

 

[JR]

More and more Ram dealers are saying that they service ford, mazda, vw, GM, volvi and other makes.
I think this is true across the board. Since ford has been using the CP4-2 for years. You could actually get it serviced where the parts prices are cheaper.
For example, there are likely ford dealers in your area that could get the same parts cheaper?

Or.... Would even a Ford dealer service dept need to use the Chrysler Part #?????

Ford dealerships aren't going to invest tens of thousands of dollars per dealership into witech and the associated training, and FCA isn't going to invest tens of thousands per dealership into IDS and all the associated training. Considering the challenges of keeping up with just one platform and all of the updates and changes, I'd say we as customers are better off with it being that way.

It's one thing to perform basic services across different brands but getting into emissions testing and repair, for example is a whole nother ball game.

 

[R.Taylor]

Twenty minutes ago, the post below appeared on another forum. May well be a troll. No details, or verification, and no idea why a complete engine replacement is being talked about, but...

I'm curious if anyone has had a fuel system problem with a 2019 Ram? My brand new 2019 Ram with 245 miles is sitting in the shop, apparently in need of a new motor, due to a catastrophic fuel system failure. Is this problem affecting anyone else? I am told by the mechanic at the dealership that the CP4 fuel pump has apparently failed and the fix is Chrysler FCA sending a new motor. Waiting to hear more on Monday after the dealership contacts the engineers and starts what they referred to as a "STAR" case.

I believe it's a troll who's cut and pasted various blurbs together from VW / Audi / Ford Forums... I remember some of the quotes but not pieced together like this paragraph they posted. They just added in "2019 Ram". Also... a "STAR" case would be for Mercedes Benz not FCA. Obviously some jealous troll who can't afford a new 2019 RAM HD.

 

[TFucili]

I believe it's a troll who's cut and pasted various blurbs together from VW / Audi / Ford Forums... I remember some of the quotes but not pieced together like this paragraph they posted. They just added in "2019 Ram". Also... a "STAR" case would be for Mercedes Benz not FCA. Obviously some jealous troll who can't afford a new 2019 RAM HD.

Quite possible, for sure.

 

[Bob4x4]

Rtaylor,star has been around for many years for Chrysler support.
My apprentice sent me pics of a failed cp4 last week,it had a loud knock.I didn’t ask if there was contamination involved or not,I was too busy at the time

 

[Newsa]

One thing i don't like about the cartridge filter in the front is that it seems the drain never drains out all the fuel. And when removing the filter, there is sort of a liquid suction sound where it seems the filtered fuel mixes back with the unfiltered fuel. I do like the back canister because it drops all the old fuel.

I would not like the new design of the cartridge filter if it allowed filtered fuel to mix with unfiltered fuel. Maybe because the rear filter is inverted..... It doesn't have this problem????????

This relates to the fuel contamination that we think contributes to fuel system failures

 

[sag2]

Twenty minutes ago, the post below appeared on another forum. May well be a troll. No details, or verification, and no idea why a complete engine replacement is being talked about, but...

I'm curious if anyone has had a fuel system problem with a 2019 Ram? My brand new 2019 Ram with 245 miles is sitting in the shop, apparently in need of a new motor, due to a catastrophic fuel system failure. Is this problem affecting anyone else? I am told by the mechanic at the dealership that the CP4 fuel pump has apparently failed and the fix is Chrysler FCA sending a new motor. Waiting to hear more on Monday after the dealership contacts the engineers and starts what they referred to as a "STAR" case.

Back in the VP44 days we started to see very early failures of the pump. When they investigated it they found the fuel lines were shipped to the plant in cardboard boxes. The lines were not capped and they were rubbing on the ends of the boxes, and cardboard was getting inside the lines. The guys on the assembly line just grabbed them and installed, cardboard debris and all. The pumps failed very early like the one mentioned above. The debris was on the clean side of the filter and damaged the pump almost immediately.
Another possibility on the truck above is the first fill was gasoline. I would not rule that out.

 

[sag2]

I just checked again today, the pump has superseded to a pump and line kit and the MSRP is now down to $2925. The Injectors are up $10 to $2475 and the HO injectors are $2250. All prices are MSRP as quoted by the dealer.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

SAG2 is giving us dealer prices as a reference, and that is good. If one of us experiences a failure due to bad fuel, etc. we know there are alternatives to the dealer. Private shops, BD etc. as parts sources, insurance etc. in the event of a station selling bad fuel. Regardless, we know that someone will have a big bill to pay and that means that we are more careful.

 

[Tuesdak]

Maybe “ They” don’t get it because the reported failures are at least several years old.

I would feel better about it knowing how Bosch adapted the design to handle North American Diesel vs. "other older" CP4's that are still dropping dead today.

Older trucks with a CP4 are still dropping dead today and now some are doing so on the owner's dime due to age and miles expiring all warranties. The last Duramax CP4 failure I read about in the past year was then a CP3 conversion. The conversion didn't appear to run right due to tune problems afterwards. I recall the owner spent around $12,000 in parts and labor for a CP3 conversion. Then headaches to get it running properly. They gave up and got rid of it. The last year Duramax used CP4's was 2016 so maybe some still under warranty.

Edit: 2013 Duramax. Was $14K. Around $9500 for the cp3 kit and injectors, $1000 in rails and misc lines, and the rest labor.

So again a little more substance on "new and improved" to offset the "older past" CP4's that are still dropping dead today and presently haunting the CP4 name would really help. I sincerely hope Cummins got it correct, but, not seen much to help with it's reputation. Thus the legit concern that nothing changed to address all of it's early failure modes. Trust is earned: never given. Thus I salute those that have gone first to help earn trust. IMO it could be handled better esp. with a known bad reputation that can't hide with today's internet.

 

[sag2]

If FCA and Cummins were going to be on the hook for a bunch of warranty failures on a pump that is allegedly not designed for the north American market, wouldn't you think they would have improved it? When we were at Columbus the engineers didn't specifically say what improvements were made, but they did confirm they did.

 

[RVTRKN]

I sure hope so, I'm a guinea pig.