A new approach to the well known front end problem

[Charlie Lawhon]

Yes, a AWD TC that doesn't cost 50 Grand would be desirable.
I dream of one with a lockable Torsen Differential with a standard ratio of torque diversion 35/65 Front/Rear unlocked.
Best would be just an exchange of the internals of the NV 273 or the newer BW unit, doesn't matter as they are interchangeable.
Priced within the range of an ATLAS TC I would probably buy it.

I would like to hear more of the info you have on the division between front to rear. I've been looking at a fluid coupler to incorporate in the front output that could give a dynamic offset and possibly be electronic valve controlled proportion.

I've never messed with an awd conversion but I've owned several of the 2G Mitsubishi eclipse awd cars with some power adders. Lots of fun and no worries when it starts raining.

 

[Ozymandias]

Many Sportscars and other that use a Torsen Differential in the Center have an asymmetrical torque distribution. You need to dig deeper into this topic.
Oh, and its all mechanical.

The only start into it i can give you is this - https://torsen.com/how-it-works/
We are looking on the T3 unit.

 

[Ozymandias]

And you don't want a fluid coupler in a HD application, they wear out to fast.
Many problems reported with older Grand Cherokees that have that Type of coupler at higher milage (above 100k Miles).

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

And you don't want a fluid coupler in a HD application, they wear out to fast.
Many problems reported with older Grand Cherokees that have that Type of coupler at higher milage (above 100k Miles).

Do iou know exactly what type of fluid coupler it is? I was thinking of an industrial purpose type. I didn't even know they used anything outside of a limited slip type of clutching system just to allow compliance front to rear.

This is good information !

 

[Ozymandias]

Do iou know exactly what type of fluid coupler it is? I was thinking of an industrial purpose type. I didn't even know they used anything outside of a limited slip type of clutching system just to allow compliance front to rear.

This is good information !

They started with the NV249 that had a simple viscous clutch, that one degraded fastest.

Next Generation had the NV247 that had a (mechanical) gerotor system which applied a clutch pack. Not bad but also wore out.
(The axle Differentials were the same system in this model.)

The latest was the NV245 a fully electronically controlled unit that is a hydraulic clutch pack.

Every of these steps was an improvement going Offroad- but you won't find these systems in long life HD applications. There you see most of the time an open center Differential manually locked by the operator - all Class8 with full time AWD - or the Torsen Differential (also lockable) in Light tactical vehicles.

 

[Ozymandias]

The next point why you want Torsen is that this is the only solution that distributes TORQUE, every other System just wants to equal the speed of the Shafts leaving the Unit. A Torsen never "locks" shafts together.
First one thinks that's the same but it isn't and also that is often not desired, especially going around corners.

And if the Torsen has a standard Bias of 35/65 you get a nice active driveable system that is responsive to the drivers input at the Wheel.
A 50/50 Bias is by far not so nice to drive.

 

[AH64ID]

I would love a HD version of the transfer case in my 2003 4Runner in my truck. It has 5 modes, 2-HI, AWD-HI, AWD-LO, 4-HI, and 4-LO.

 

[Ozymandias]

I would love a HD version of the transfer case in my 2003 4Runner in my truck. It has 5 modes, 2-HI, AWD-HI, AWD-LO, 4-HI, and 4-LO.

That's exactly right, because it is one of the vehicles that has had a Torsen T-3 in the TC from factory.

So we are two that wants one of these units for our Rams. Thank you.

 

[Ozymandias]

And as a special benefit for an inventor/investor - all HD Trucks from all 3 Companys use the same TC Case.
In the past the NV 271/273 today the BW unit.

So that market is HUGE and till today not one single competitor in it.

 

[Michaelsloft]

That's exactly right, because it is one of the vehicles that has had a Torsen T-3 in the TC from factory.

So we are two that wants one of these units for our Rams. Thank you.

Now make that THREE who wants one of these units for our Rams.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

And as a special benefit for an inventor/investor - all HD Trucks from all 3 Companys use the same TC Case.
In the past the NV 271/273 today the BW unit.

So that market is HUGE and till today not one single competitor in it.

THIS is what I'm looking for. I have the resources to design and build virtually anything.

So now what we need to do is pool information like we have here on page 6.

THIS has my attention and I'll pass this along to my buddy with that truck that started this thread and make his the test bed. He's a cool MF and loves to attempt to destroy anything he gets his hands on and finds it humorous when failure occurs which is the only attitude you can have in R&D without ending up in a mental institution.

GOOD JOB GUYS !!!!

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I would love a HD version of the transfer case in my 2003 4Runner in my truck. It has 5 modes, 2-HI, AWD-HI, AWD-LO, 4-HI, and 4-LO.

Can you please post any pictures you have of the case your referring to? Actual internals ? Anything else you have to say good or bad?

I didn't plan for this to happen. I like this !

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Derek is my buddies name with the truck we're building. Last night we were looking at that dash frame and firewall for the engine relocation. That's been on the table for about 2 months now.

We are the kind of guys that it's his truck but I'll go to his shop and just cut the damn fire wall out and leave it in the shop floor with a note......"hey we're committed now, had to run get something to eat, be back after while"

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Let me ask you guys another question now that we have a topic that is of interest to you by request.

If I get 1 built and we get some testing done on it enough that I'm comfortable not being there in person to witness everything, who might be up for subjective testing that isn't continuously throwing grenades at it in their daily?

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

This has absolutely ZERO to do with this thread OR the topic......

SIMPLY EYE CANDY

Everyone likes a nice rear end

 

[Ozymandias]

Let me ask you guys another question now that we have a topic that is of interest to you by request.

If I get 1 built and we get some testing done on it enough that I'm comfortable not being there in person to witness everything, who might be up for subjective testing that isn't continuously throwing grenades at it in their daily?

I would, me and my wife are traveling around north America with our 12000lbs Truck.

As you can see in my signature it is a 2004.5 4x4 with the 48RE Transmission and the electrical shifted NV273.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I would, me and my wife are traveling around north America with our 12000lbs Truck.

As you can see in my signature it is a 2004.5 4x4 with the 48RE Transmission and the electrical shifted NV273.

I'm glad you made the point of the weight and long haul. That's an obvious factor but going in circles in my head in between what I do during the day I've mostly been thinking about more of a sports application than towing in AWD. Personally I don't like to use my pickup to tow with. I use to drag a gooseneck when I was young then got a class 8 and ever since then I just don't feel safe towing with a pickup.

 

[Cummins12V98]

This is how you tow with a "pickup". 35k combined, eye candy!

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

This is how you tow with a "pickup". 35k combined, eye candy!

View attachment 118804

This is my dad moving one of my grinders that he just HAD to put on his pickup. The grinder by itself weighs 20k then the cat 299 compact track loader. The trailer is a 48 foot full tilt double I beam triple 15k lb axle. With the truck on the scale is just over 50k gross.

I told him and told him and told him it was too heavy. My dad use to whip my ass until I couldn't sit on it for saying the word "can't". .... well after we moved this 10 miles he said.. "we better not try to do that again, it's a little too heavy". Even though he had plenty of axle.

I don't like the way an empty 16 foot tongue pull feels on a dually anymore but I'm a total weird-O.

There's a point where its cool cause you did it and then there's a point that's just blatant disregard for public safety. This was beyond that point.

But hey...4th gen pulled it

I can't believe I let him put a 3/4 million$ machine at risk like that. ‍

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

This is the correct way to haul that piece of equipment. Or I should say this is the only LEGAL way to haul it. Note the machine size in reference to the peterbilt 379.

Yup we're idiots... we for real put that on a dodge