1500's

[Topzide]

My 10k is GAS! On a full load it'll burn 3/4 -1 gallon an hour! Typical outages I only run about 10 hours a day to be somewhat normal. In general I'll burn between 7 -10 gallons fuel. Better that losing all the freezer and since I'm 100% electric with well, no power, in stone age! After Irene rolled through and took out power, humidity was unbearable, ran HVAC for couple hours to get some relief! During that time, wasn't able to run anything else since I was maxed out! Considering a PTO genny since I have to compact diesel tractors. The 10K does enable me to weld wherever I need to. If I were to go with house unit, a diesel unit would be the way to go. The propane units can go through a tank pretty fast! Neighbor had a 20K propane put in with a 500 gal tank. They said would last 3-5 days pending time of year. JM2C.

 

[Timd32]

Sorry didn't mean to de-rail your post.

Nah, this thread was pretty wrapped up no worries there. I'm kinda at a loss here with this dealer, but is what it is. I'm always going to do the right thing they can pull what ever tricks they would like.

Forget if I posted this in my '22 Thread but more related to the 1500 kinda. I drove the 3500 from the dealer back to the shop, and needed to figure out a ride to go get the the 1500 later.

While I was doing some administrative work, mostly that means eating lunch. I got a call from the finance guy, he said "hey remember that warranty I sold you for the 3500", I said yeah the one where your price was "$100 over dealer cost" and if I found out different I was going to cancel all 8 of my builds in the que. So there is risk here if you pull a second stunt 10min after the 1500 deal going sideways...

Well he typed in $3200 for 7yr/125k instead of $3800, and was super short on that line item. Sure nuff everything said $3200 but I know he quoted me $3800, so I said look this 1500 deal has nothing to do with you, I'm good for the $600, when I pick up the 1500 will drop the check, what's the real number. He said $639.75, I said done, no worries, but if it's not a straight up deal and you just took more profit from me again there is risk here.

I got numbers back from Iowa and sure thing it was less expensive in NJ by like $100 in my favor. Not sure what the Iowa place typed in but some versions were $10k for the warranty, not a clue how that place works or what was up with the prices they were all over the place.

I will update the 3500 thread when the Maxcare pops up active to make sure it was apples to apples.

Either way. I'm not going to get on the same level as these folks not worth it. Take the loss and move on.

Back to generators...........

Yeah local Propane is about $3.50, I guess a gallon, so that's like $1750 for a 500 gal tank, so load curtailment is a must.

Gas on the 10kw is probably pretty good with that .75-1gal an hour. I typically have 15-20 gallons on hand, plus the mower and who knows what for fuel.

I did that Propane math a long time ago and thought I was just was way off, but guess not.

My water heater is 4.5kw, so we try to conserve that as much as possible and don't waste the hot water if we see it will be a few day deal. Little 6500 Honda likes the water heater it's a good load bank test for the thing.

The food thing is pricey for sure if you lose the fridge and any extra freezers, we only have the fridge. But still can add up.

 

[bcbender]

I will update the 3500 thread when the Maxcare pops up active to make sure it was apples to apples.

How do you check that its active? I only have the paperwork from the purchase, never thought to check....

On the WH... We went tankless almost 2 decades ago,... love it its propane and only uses a few milliwatts of electricity.

 

[Timd32]

How do you check that its active? I only have the paperwork from the purchase, never thought to check....

On the WH... We went tankless almost 2 decades ago,... love it its propane and only uses a few milliwatts of electricity.

https://www.mopar.com/en-us/my-garage/select-vehicle.html

Yeah 8000 pages of links and circle back pages. I knew there was a Warranty Tab but of course it's just the basic stuff not the extended.

I have the papers you sign will double check those, then I think your right they mail a card.

Interesting they make it so hard to check the MaxCare online.

Not there... Must be a separate database or even a separate company within Stelantis.

Since they messed up the paperwork figure would wait and double check it all went through. They did not make new paperwork.

I think their basic package and powertrain is pretty good all in we have a ton of Ram's and Jeeps. Hopefully never need it,

Be too easy to have it here....

 

[Topzide]

On the generator thing, way back when I first moved in, went through a couple of outages of 2-3 days. The only thing I had to work with was a 4K Generac portable! It had 20.8 amps 240 available. You learn real quick how to load shed! It was enough to run well pump to refill pressure tank and fill buckets for flushing. Had toilets shut off with just sinks available. It was able to heat a tank of water, 30 amp heater! Since this was a restive type load, it would do it, but much slower and at full load on genny! So heat a tank of water, turn of heater, turn on well pump, wash dishes, wash the boy and ourselves. You would make sure to have buckets filled before nightly shut down. All other time the genny was running, it kept the fridge and freezer running. One great thing was to use a cooler for the things you would use often. Made sure the ice maker was working during the day and emptied out at night into cooler. I called it modern camping! The DW had a different definition! It worked until getting the 10K. I made sure to have fuel for the grill, have a 110 volt burner, skillet and griddle. Helps keep expense down since buying fuel for genny and take-out gets OLD! Hope this help with decisions.

 

[bcbender]

Yeah, I don't know if I ever got a card, but you'll bet I'm going to dig into it.. I really don't have a whole lot of faith anymore in some people doing their job.

 

[Timd32]

I got a card for my 2500. Again was it what I think it was who knows, it's all tied to the VIN so they have it have not needed to ever show it to them.

It was 7yr/125k $100 Deductible $3,200. Which we know was wrong. Being tied to the VIN I feel these numbers could vary greatly, who knows, someone might.

The Iowa place sent back like a $6900 number but they included 2 flyers one was MultiCare and 2nd was MaxCare, so maybe they included both of those packages for that price no clue, I never went back to them since we were really far apart.

My email was just requesting MaxCare 7/125 and provided the VIN, maybe I did it wrong.

But I'm fine with just double checking that screen grab, I feel I'm all set to get on the road.

 

[Tuesdak]

for now still doing the old 6500 Honda manual hook up via the dryer plug. Been 9 yrs doing that and we had only a few 3-5 day deals.

PSA:
This is called a "Suicide cord" and is illegal, period. The power company will immediately pull your meter if they catch you doing this and Good Luck getting it put back in. The cheapest safe way to fix this is a interlock device in the breaker panel, dedicated generator breaker, and generator inlet plug. The interlock forces the main breaker to be "off" when the generator breaker is "on" so it's one power source or the other: never accidentally both.

https://interlockkit.com/

Easy button, if they are ever in stock, is a transfer switch on the power meter.

http://www.generlink.com/generlink.html

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLi...A-Per-Phase-Surge-Protection-MA24-S/301962200

Better option is a transfer switch that feeds only critical loads on a sub panel. Depends on how much manual breaker switching you want to do for load management or "full auto" options to the limits of the generator.

What make is your breaker panel? Most manufacturers offer an inexpensive interlock device for their stuff and should be the first place one looks for one.

WHY YOU CARE:
The Suicide cord gets pulled out of the dryer plug: the terminals are live at 240V generator power and will hurt the entire time it's killing whoever touches it in the dark. (Say like curious kids) Or it drops on and lights up the metal dryer and now the dryer lights someone up.

Family or helpful friend comes over and doesn't throw the main breaker: this backfeeds the utility. Transformers then light up down power lines at high voltage and utility workers (or others who contact the power lines) get killed. This happens way too often to them.

Power comes back on with the main breaker "on": This will lock the generator up magnetically. Then the generator can overheat from utility power going through it and catch on fire. Now you have a gasoline fireball to deal with. Your insurance company isn't going to miss the illegal Suicide Cord and will deny the claim. Don't be this interesting to the insurance company and power company!

 

[Timd32]

PSA:
This is called a "Suicide cord" and is illegal, period. The power company will immediately pull your meter if they catch you doing this and Good Luck getting it put back in. The cheapest safe way to fix this is a interlock device in the breaker panel, dedicated generator breaker, and generator inlet plug. The interlock forces the main breaker to be "off" when the generator breaker is "on" so it's one power source or the other: never accidentally both.

https://interlockkit.com/

Easy button, if they are ever in stock, is a transfer switch on the power meter.

http://www.generlink.com/generlink.html

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLi...A-Per-Phase-Surge-Protection-MA24-S/301962200

Better option is a transfer switch that feeds only critical loads on a sub panel. Depends on how much manual breaker switching you want to do for load management or "full auto" options to the limits of the generator.

What make is your breaker panel? Most manufacturers offer an inexpensive interlock device for their stuff and should be the first place one looks for one.

WHY YOU CARE:
The Suicide cord gets pulled out of the dryer plug: the terminals are live at 240V generator power and will hurt the entire time it's killing whoever touches it in the dark. (Say like curious kids) Or it drops on and lights up the metal dryer and now the dryer lights someone up.

Family or helpful friend comes over and doesn't throw the main breaker: this backfeeds the utility. Transformers then light up down power lines at high voltage and utility workers (or others who contact the power lines) get killed. This happens way too often to them.

Power comes back on with the main breaker "on": This will lock the generator up magnetically. Then the generator can overheat from utility power going through it and catch on fire. Now you have a gasoline fireball to deal with. Your insurance company isn't going to miss the illegal Suicide Cord and will deny the claim. Don't be this interesting to the insurance company and power company!

100%. It's a reverse plug interlocked, but for all extensive purposes it's a dryer plug set up much easier for folks to understand that analogy, have to manually drag out the Gen run it away from the house, run the cord, flip the main breaker, releases the interlocked breaker.

Maybe should call it something else but gets the point across much faster.

Usually by day 2 of these long outages you start to see the CO2 alarms come in from folks running their generators in/near the garage. All my FA are dual smoke/CO2, yes over kill and more then double the cost, also run same in garage because the generator is closest to that.

But for sure don't just do the dryer deal.

It would be super easy for the utility to build backfeed protection into the meter in place of the crap the choose to put in them. If it was really about worker safety it would be done, unfortunately it's a numbers deal and finding new ways to shut off folks power selectively was much more of a priority to them.

Utilities are still using tagging only no locks 24/7 so it's all not that great of a system, and I think the tagging system is great, it works. But there are some serious issues.

We have had fully grounded 26kv lines tagged and grounded, there was a fluke accident where some 138kv lines got knocked over and fell onto of the 26kv no matter how safe you make it something else is going to fail.

I really don't think anyone would just unplug the dryer and plug in a generator. But stupid is as stupid does.

Some of us are still in the stone age with manual cords and manual load control but we make it work. Toss a 35KW Propane unit with 1000gal UG tank and run the world till you get that first bill.

But 100% good post.

 

[Timd32]

Small sample of the daily grind from a weekend or 2 ago. Been in the field since '96.

 

[Topzide]

Yep, transfer panels are your best friend with a generator!!!!!!!!!! The newer interlock option is a game changer for those who don't have the coin for a transfer panel. the transfer panel does have the advantage of allowing you to know when the utility power has been restored. I've got an auto transfer box good up to 50 Amps that will restore utility power when it comes back on and will provide the ground to stop the genny. Was given the box from a friend who did generator installs and the people didn't want the auto start feature which this box will do. Never looked into that since my genny is portable. The shut down is nice to save on fuel though!

 

[Timd32]

Yeah the garage is a 2nd separate 200A service, meter and all, so when I have an outage I go out set up the Gen and the sort then go and turn on the outside lights in the garage, when the lights come on, power is back. I don't back up the garage at all. Most months it's only $5 for that service, unless I'm working on the Willys and running the compressor and blast cabinet and the sort.

I also sleep downstairs usually when running the Gen, in case there are any anomalies.

Do a fuel watch take manual pictures and kinda know how long I can go with the fuel.

Neighbors loved the garage lights as they could also see when the power was back, but they switched to a whole home auto unit with the automatic transfer switch.

I'm the typical shoemaker deal, but it's a safe set up for sure.

This is from last year the utility did not trust the customer grounds so I said add yours as needed, I dont see how this is any safer, tags and huge single phase grounds, but kept them happy.

I still had to hang customer grounds!

This is all for inadvertent energization of the gear, the grounds are 20kA in my case probably a little larger for theirs, it should be enough to trip off the line, but I think it would break a bone if the cable energized and whipped up and snagged you, and you had better had a tight connection.

 

[Tuesdak]

I really don't think anyone would just unplug the dryer and plug in a generator. But stupid is as stupid does.

THIS!!! I had also taken it for granted that anyone would risk doing a Suicide Cord. I was simply stunned when I read about some doing that as well noting the selling of the said cords at flea markets.

Yes, CO alarms are a good idea to install with any generator. Never know when the wind shifts and suddenly you have a problem. The alarms on the generator are a bad joke because it matters where the people are not at the source.

I have lots of generator time rolling extension cords out with a window shaker A/C converting gasoline into noise ... from a sad state of affairs with CA's spot market fraud. Things haven't improved there since, but, the electric rates sure went up to get off the spot market.

Solar makes the interlock a no-go option. Have to treat solar as a current source. (Unless you have a battery in the system to dump the unused KW solar is making into.) Solar is another level of complex that is easily solved by a transfer switch and sub with emergency loads only in it. Solar = Utility at that point and on the same side of the transfer switch.

 

[Tuesdak]

We went over the crystal ball and picked this 1500 due to market this and that and it still has a good wholesale number of $59k, but they refuse to budge past the $50k.

Curious if rentals were not obtainable in your area when you did this deal? They weren't in our area. In context of all the unavailable things ... this is not a bad plan. Cost of a rental is high.

It's still not a bad plan to keep it for something that "Runs and Drives." I didn't say "pickup" or do what a 2500/3500 does. Again no rentals available etc... Maybe you can rent it out?

I knew there was risk here the values would tank, but they are not tanked and they are just $7k-$9k off the mark, and they tell you yeah we really don't want it back so we are at $50k firm and recommend you do not accept this offer and take it down the road. It's just odd. Do you need a ride down the road we can help with that........

While I was doing some administrative work, mostly that means eating lunch. I got a call from the finance guy, he said "hey remember that warranty I sold you for the 3500", I said yeah the one where your price was "$100 over dealer cost" and if I found out different I was going to cancel all 8 of my builds in the que. So there is risk here if you pull a second stunt 10min after the 1500 deal going sideways...

Well he typed in $3200 for 7yr/125k instead of $3800, and was super short on that line item. Sure nuff everything said $3200 but I know he quoted me $3800, so I said look this 1500 deal has nothing to do with you, I'm good for the $600, when I pick up the 1500 will drop the check, what's the real number. He said $639.75, I said done, no worries, but if it's not a straight up deal and you just took more profit from me again there is risk here.

Are you dealing with a fleet manager or just a salesperson? If not why not?

You have a contract and the mistake is on them. Why are you playing nice when they ain't? This is real close to the phone call after you drove the car home asking for more money or they will unwind the deal.

I guess it would cost you the increased MSRP from when you placed the orders to switch dealers on orders. (Also time to build etc.) I can see why this isn't a good option.

For sanity did you get a Carmax quote to buy the 1500? IMO this is the acid test. Can't be bothered to give you a decent trade in even if it's going straight to auction. Or something makes them think it's not at full auction value ... so for the benefit of the doubt if say Carmax is also low then there isn't an issue.

As presented I would be looking for another dealer at this point. Even another brand if the dealers in the area are all bad...

After turning in a lease in 2002 and buying a new pickup... I got a check back on the leased pickup as it sold for more than the residual value at auction. Maybe I should have sold it myself. Case in point the dealer sent it straight to auction vs. putting it on their used lot.

 

[Timd32]

Yep rentals are available not a bad choice at all. I picked this up July 7th and say I turned it in last week, 3 months and 3 weeks, would run about $7500. At this rate yes not a bad deal.

Yeah it's an odd situation when you have the 15 other vehicles going in about 15 months +/-.

At no time did I think I would make out here, it's just me, the salesperson, and the finance guy all don't see the -30% here based on the market numbers for this vehicle. They were very adamant about the $50k or highway.

I don't know why they care about the tax advantages on the 3500 who cares that should not affect the trade.

Things that effect the trade in my mind.
1. Current inventory, Ram is actually good with 1500"s right not, not a big shortage. So that's a negative.

2. Auction prices. $56k was mentioned to me by the salesperson.

3. Wholesale market. $59k was shown to me on the computer screen by 2 folks at the dealership.

4. Condition of trade. It has 3347 miles so at .25 cents a mile that's about $835.25

5. Current rebates. There are about $3k in rebates, of which they tacked on $1500 worth of their dealer packages, good luck not accepting those. There also was a 0% deal for 1500s right now that's a negative for me.

So all in for them there is very little upside to the vehicle....... so they say. But at a MSRP that increased for the '22's since July up about $2k, push aside which I doubt they will the sticker was $67,450 and they told me they would list it to sell it at $62k, then lose this that and next thing so they needed to clear 20%, so $50k / $62k = 80.6%, the $50k was actually higher then they wanted to offer.

Yeah pulling the next 8 deals is always an option, I have zero down on those 8, again just handshakes and past deals.

8 vehicles will build some street credit with a new dealer in a different area for sure. I could buy these anywhere, just pick an @ MSRP. There is no magic here on these. They are nice but nothing special work vans 159" High Roofs, with decent tech package. And a nice bin package then a few Jeep Cherokees tossed in.

I have looked on Carmax, but when you do the 2min offer deal the vehicle is too rare and they need to see the vehicle. Unfortunately Carmax is 2hr round trip to the east and 1.5hr west round trip.

I'm not sure if I will get better pricing in NJ to the East or PA over the river. My guess is NJ would be a little higher.

Also I don't know the overall process, do I need to show up with a second driver when they look at it, what games are they going to play, will have to find out.

I agree need to get something moving after my other daily driver comes back probably tomorrow.

It's been raining last few days truck will show better in the sun I'm thinking, who knows, not me for sure.

 

[Tuesdak]

I would look over @AH64ID new 2022 purchase. The purchase price was locked in at order time!

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/moved-into-a-2022.273053/

Time to get the “fleet manager” involved. If not there than get one say from your bank, Costco, etc. IDK why you buy so many vehicles and don’t matter. You are piling a lot of cash up on the table for the dealership for no good reason.

Contract when prices are going ip spelling out the purchase price is cheaper than a “worthless not enforceable handshake”!

 

[Timd32]

I would look over @AH64ID new 2022 purchase. The purchase price was locked in at order time!

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/moved-into-a-2022.273053/

Time to get the “fleet manager” involved. If not there than get one say from your bank, Costco, etc. IDK why you buy so many vehicles and don’t matter. You are piling a lot of cash up on the table for the dealership for no good reason.

Contract when prices are going ip spelling out the purchase price is cheaper than a “worthless not enforceable handshake”!

It gets confusing for sure, the 1500 was not an order, it was a call it a gap truck, till the 3500 arrived.

1500 was on the lot, 3500 was ordered and yes price locked in May, saved about $3k on that, lock price in May was $78k and the as delivered sticker was $81k. So basically got my MaxCare almost covered.

I know 1 deal a month for 15 months sounds like a large volume but these are +$200M dealers, they could care less if I take the 8 on order and go down the road. They truly don't care about anyone's single 3500 for sure.

Was told Stellantis requested 1000 rail car capacity and was provided 100, the five 2500 vans I ordered have been built and are just awaiting transport with tons of other vehicles. The three Cherrokee are in order hold, I have the order sheets and the configurations just waiting on the window to open for them to place the order.

I think I made out OK with the 3500.

Just read another article today that used cars in the 3Q are down 7% and with rise in intrest rates people are going upside down and they think lots of repos coming. I'm not familiar with the source but I read it anyway was in my Google feed. Maybe they knew better then to take this thing back.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/lenders-caution-buyers-as-used-car-prices-drop/amp/

As they say Business is Business, kinda nieve of me to think they would do the right thing. Trust me these folks are complete business folks, every penny matters.

I've left a big chunk of the story out of it on purpose but there is more to the front end decision making which the dealer was all apart of and knew why we were really needing a second car, and I really think they took advantage of the situation, but I rather keep it to the numbers.

Truck is probably $56k-$59k all day, then the tax benefit is like $3k, that puts me $12k in the hole, @ $50k, I'm $22k in the hole, so regardless I had no choice but to keep it for atleast a few weeks to see other offers.

Not to beat the dead horse, for me with the 7 deals in the bank and 8 on order, why the heck would you let me drive it to the place just to play this game, and leave me hanging, just man up call me and say hey man the market for this tanked and we can't buy it back.

I would have been like no problem thanks for trying and I get it.

This is a first world problem for sure, I dont think there is even anything for folks to learn here. It was kinda a crazy idea.

We drove the truck again today took the family to the Dr's for my little one 3yr check up, they played in the back of thr truck climbed all over it, went to Wendy's, then my inlaws Farm. Had a good day, truck runs good its a great ride. Might as well enjoy it.

Did not take the 3500 because lots of back roads 20mph to 35mph and would lug the HO Cummins way too much, and I pulled the car seats while the other one is in the shop.

It does not keep me up at night but agree it sucks they don't appreciate the business like folks would think.

What about a $20/5000 ticket raffle truck, $72k to pay off the truck and $28k to charity...... IDK it kinda is what it is, I feel.what ever the loss here it if I invest in back in the market it will recover nicely in a few years.