Liquid Heat Generator

[NWRam]

Hey all, I'm curious if anyone has used or head anything about FICM Repairs LHG. I'm interested because it claims to cut down on regens since the engine will get to operating temp much faster cutting down on soot which in turn will help with longevity. Does it harm the motor to warm up as fast as they claim? How does it affect the coolant? I hadn't heard anything about it until last night while I was listening to a podcast.

It has a pretty steep price so I won't be buying one anytime soon, even if everyone says it's the best thing since sliced bread. I'd just like to hear some input.

https://www.ficmrepair.com/index.cf...id=2068/category_id=209/mode=prod/prd2068.htm

 

[bcbender]

I don't know, but 45min on the block heater, and head out when engine hits about 100 or more works for me in almost anything. Just a little planning the night before to remember to set a $10 timer and plug her in and good to go. Truck warms quickly IMHO, much faster than my 04 ever did. Add a cold weather front, etc.. much less out of the wallet. Plus I am not a huge fan of a 3rd party messing with my $90k truck, doubt maxcare would cover it.

 

[Diesel85]

I really think this device is for folks that don't have access to electricity to plug their trucks in.

And even then, these new trucks warm up quick, especially with a winter front on.

$2,400 (not including tax and shipping!) is insane for a coolant warmup device and another service point that could potentially leave one stranded.

These new trucks, you just get in, push the button, give it like a minute and then put it in drive, the computer knows what to do to warm it up.

I'd also be willing to bet that there are plenty of fail safes programmed in the computer that the truck is a bit derated until everything reaches a certain temperature.

 

[NWRam]

I don't know, but 45min on the block heater, and head out when engine hits about 100 or more works for me in almost anything. Just a little planning the night before to remember to set a $10 timer and plug her in and good to go. Truck warms quickly IMHO, much faster than my 04 ever did. Add a cold weather front, etc.. much less out of the wallet. Plus I am not a huge fan of a 3rd party messing with my $90k truck, doubt maxcare would cover it.

I just installed my block heater cord yesterday and hoping it makes a difference. Already got my timer so it's ready to go! I wouldn't want a 3rd party messing with mine either. I don't live in much of a cold climate anyways so I don't think it would be necessary for me but I'm still curious if it would make that much of a difference with region frequency.

I really think this device is for folks that don't have access to electricity to plug their trucks in.

And even then, these new trucks warm up quick, especially with a winter front on.

$2,400 (not including tax and shipping!) is insane for a coolant warmup device and another service point that could potentially leave one stranded.

These new trucks, you just get in, push the button, give it like a minute and then put it in drive, the computer knows what to do to warm it up.

I'd also be willing to bet that there are plenty of fail safes programmed in the computer that the truck is a bit derated until everything reaches a certain temperature.

Mine warms up quick and it's great. At least the coolant warms up. Im hoping the block heater helps out regarding the regen frequency. I just regened today after only 140 miles between now and my last one. The price of the thing is nuts! I would have a really hard time justifying the purchase. It's my understanding that it's pretty new so I feel like not many people have given it a shot yet or if they even will.

 

[slowmover]

Have to reach oil op-temp for “warm-up”.
For least wear going forward.

Short trips (under 45-miles) are what rapidly degrade drivetrains. They’re never warmed up long enough to counter the start-up problems.

Looks like a commercial application trying to corral all potential users.

If Freightliner, Detroit and others listed are valid, it ain’t a gimmick. HOW it’s used (attendant systems) would be the question. It’s not that much more than an Espar/Webasto unit, installed. But it’s far less than a ThermoKing APU.

The more cold starts (4-hours) over a month, the greater the payoff.

Home Depot Daddy with his minor annual RV miles towing as a house-holder/commuter ain’t really the target. That guy needs an insulated garage he wants long life.

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[slowmover]

I just installed my block heater cord yesterday and hoping it makes a difference. Already got my timer so it's ready to go! I wouldn't want a 3rd party messing with mine either. I don't live in much of a cold climate anyways so I don't think it would be necessary for me but I'm still curious if it would make that much of a difference with region frequency.



Mine warms up quick and it's great. At least the coolant warms up. Im hoping the block heater helps out regarding the regen frequency. I just regened today after only 140 miles between now and my last one. The price of the thing is nuts! I would have a really hard time justifying the purchase. It's my understanding that it's pretty new so I feel like not many people have given it a shot yet or if they even will.

Nuts? You’d have to work it into the long-term CPM ownership projection you wrote up before vehicle purchase to understand the payoff point.

Regen frequency is going up be related to Average MPH. Needs to be 27 or higher (35 is a target). Find your lifetime number and work to get it higher. 45+ is what one sees from LTL use.

.

 

[slowmover]

I really think this device is for folks that don't have access to electricity to plug their trucks in.

And even then, these new trucks warm up quick, especially with a winter front on.

$2,400 (not including tax and shipping!) is insane for a coolant warmup device and another service point that could potentially leave one stranded.

These new trucks, you just get in, push the button, give it like a minute and then put it in drive, the computer knows what to do to warm it up.

I'd also be willing to bet that there are plenty of fail safes programmed in the computer that the truck is a bit derated until everything reaches a certain temperature.

With respect, how many miles before your oil temp is above 200F? Tires take 90/minutes steady-state above 45-MPH before pressure equalizes.

Q: What percent of your miles are with oil above 200F and tires equalized? Cold engine and drag from tires explains degradation from optimal, alone.

A: The lower that number, the sooner is the payoff. (Watching pennies, not dollars: CPM).

As it’s low for everyone (relatively), shortening engine warm-up is part of that last 10% (where the first 90% was fairly easy).

Engines have a lifespan of gallons consumed. You want to reach it at the average 275k or push past 400k (based on 350k B50)?

Fuel Burn per Engine Hour. This turns into spreadsheet work, and that’s an assumption for the buyer.

Operator practice is part of that 90% where it’s easy to reduce cold miles. Most don’t optimize even that.

.

 

[slowmover]

“I really think this device is for folks that don't have access to electricity to plug their trucks in.”

Yes. Who’ve run the numbers to understand themselves and what it’ll take to reach the payoff point.

Nutz = the 6” lifts and ghey-boy tires.

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[Signal73]

I just installed my block heater cord yesterday and hoping it makes a difference. Already got my timer so it's ready to go! I wouldn't want a 3rd party messing with mine either. I don't live in much of a cold climate anyways so I don't think it would be necessary for me but I'm still curious if it would make that much of a difference with region frequency.



Mine warms up quick and it's great. At least the coolant warms up. Im hoping the block heater helps out regarding the regen frequency. I just regened today after only 140 miles between now and my last one. The price of the thing is nuts! I would have a really hard time justifying the purchase. It's my understanding that it's pretty new so I feel like not many people have given it a shot yet or if they even will.

I think you can try any gimmick you want and still have regen frequency problems, it’s specifically a 2022 thing. Stelantis is working on a fix but it’s been a very slow rollout.

 

[bcbender]

FYI... I checked my heater performance once just to see the effectivity.. This was a cold icy day with wind and ambient in the mid 20s / 30 degrees.

 

[AH64ID]

With respect, how many miles before your oil temp is above 200F?

On my 05 I had days where it would never get above 200°, even after hundreds of miles towing. Are you saying that means the engine wasn’t warmed up?

The EGR equipped engines so warm up very fast. The oil temp gauge is fake, but the ISB block is basically the same so the oil temp will likely follow coolant temp during warmup about the same. Oil got to operating temp on my 05 within a few miles of coolant. My 14-16 mile one way commute would have both at operating temp, even in winter. My 6.7’s have gotten to operating temp in 1/2 to 2/3 of the miles.

 

[SSchang]

I think you can try any gimmick you want and still have regen frequency problems, it’s specifically a 2022 thing. Stelantis is working on a fix but it’s been a very slow rollout.

What's the regen frequency problem with the 2022s? I have 35,000 on mine, and never noticed a problem.

 

[NWRam]

What's the regen frequency problem with the 2022s? I have 35,000 on mine, and never noticed a problem.

It’s how often they regen. Some are getting less than 100 miles between regens. I don’t seem to have an issue when towing but when I’m not it regens pretty often even though I'm mostly highway miles. Frequent regents can also cause your oil level to rise and get diluted with fuel. They’re working on a fix but it seems to have slowed down. It sounds like the MAF is fixing the issue for some. German vs China made. Is your MAF German or China made?

 

[AH64ID]

What's the regen frequency problem with the 2022s? I have 35,000 on mine, and never noticed a problem.

It’s not limited to just the 2022, but they seem to have a higher rate of regen frequency issues when city driven.

 

[NWRam]

Nuts? You’d have to work it into the long-term CPM ownership projection you wrote up before vehicle purchase to understand the payoff point.

Regen frequency is going up be related to Average MPH. Needs to be 27 or higher (35 is a target). Find your lifetime number and work to get it higher. 45+ is what one sees from LTL use.

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To an extent, sure but that's not always the case. If someone is frequently cold starting and then getting on the highway the DPF will most likely fill up because of the soot from all the cold starts hence the importance of temperatures. MPH won't be much of a factor here. I average somewhere between 50-55mph and mine fills up. I think RPMs would make more sense. You could be in a lower gear with a higher RPM and be going 25mph and have a similar exhaust output if you were in 6th gear at the same RPM and driving 60mph. I know of the 2022 issue but it's not just that year of pickups with the issue.

 

[AH64ID]

To an extent, sure but that's not always the case. If someone is frequently cold starting and then getting on the highway the DPF will most likely fill up because of the soot from all the cold starts hence the importance of temperatures. MPH won't be much of a factor here. I average somewhere between 50-55mph and mine fills up. I think RPMs would make more sense. You could be in a lower gear with a higher RPM and be going 25mph and have a similar exhaust output if you were in 6th gear at the same RPM and driving 60mph. I know of the 2022 issue but it's not just that year of pickups with the issue.

Airflow isn’t nearly as important as exhaust temp. Under empty conditions the higher the rpm for a given load generally the cooler the EGT’s. So 45 in 6th will have more passive regen than 45 in 4th.

 

[NWRam]

Airflow isn’t nearly as important as exhaust temp. Under empty conditions the high the rpm for a given load generally the cooler the EGT’s. So 45 in 6th will have more passive regen than 45 in 4th.

Thanks for the response. That's helpful. I knew the lower the RPM the higher the EGT relatively speaking. In relation to soot load when cold starting and the product and methods mentioned earlier, would "higher" RPMs, nothing excessive, when cold create less soot while driving vs lugging in 6th? Similar to the high idle which is recommended by Ram? I've never had to give much thought into my previous diesels since that was prior to the emission systems. I used my block heater this morning and it was great. I'm wondering if it will have any effect on regens.

 

[slowmover]

On my 05 I had days where it would never get above 200°, even after hundreds of miles towing. Are you saying that means the engine wasn’t warmed up?

The EGR equipped engines so warm up very fast. The oil temp gauge is fake, but the ISB block is basically the same so the oil temp will likely follow coolant temp during warmup about the same. Oil got to operating temp on my 05 within a few miles of coolant. My 14-16 mile one way commute would have both at operating temp, even in winter. My 6.7’s have gotten to operating temp in 1/2 to 2/3 of the miles.

An ‘05 (like my ‘04) wasn’t designed to run 200+ (sump temp) for lower friction. It was harder to control pressure spikes unlike latest.

If latest don’t, my mistake. Class 8 has now for some time. Seeing 240F+ on a hard pull is SOP. 220F is ballpark otherwise. (Coolant maintained at 190F).

.

 

[AH64ID]

An ‘05 (like my ‘04) wasn’t designed to run 200+ for lower friction. It was harder to control pressure spikes unlike latest.

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But the current 6.7 runs the same oil cooling system, oil capacity, and same temp thermostat. Oil temps will be nearly the same as 5.9’s.

The 10-12 6.7’s used a 200° thermostat to try to help the emissions but went back to a 190° in 2013. I suspect that the elevated oil temps was one of the reasons they went back to the 190°. Even with a 190° thermostat I would see oil temps within 10° of what Cummins says is max, so with a 200° thermostat I likely would have been over especially with an EGR cooler that keeps the coolant hotter for similar power.

 

[slowmover]

But the current 6.7 runs the same oil cooling system, oil capacity, and same temp thermostat. Oil temps will be nearly the same as 5.9’s.

The 10-12 6.7’s used a 200° thermostat to try to help the emissions but went back to a 190° in 2013. I suspect that the elevated oil temps was one of the reasons they went back to the 190°. Even with a 190° thermostat I would see oil temps within 10° of what Cummins says is max, so with a 200° thermostat I likely would have been over especially with an EGR cooler that keeps the coolant hotter for similar power.

What was spread from coolant to oil, steady-state highway? The norm you’d expect given a fair load?

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