my ctd ticks mostly at idle

[jgibson]

Assume worst...hope for best??

OK so it could be an injector

. . it could be a valve

. . it could be a lifter

. . gulp it could be a piston in 180 deg. off!



On the reversed piston, how did you diagnose the problem? How did you convince a dealer that the issue is real, and not normal (which is their canned answer)?



I would buy the injector noise also, but the frequency of my ticking is spot on for only one cylinder, so if the tick is "normal" why don't all the injectors make the noise. Can I manually fire an injector one by one to test this theory?



Don't want to cry wolf but also do NOT want to be stranded with my 13K lb. trailer in the middle of no where when the problem could be diagnosed and fixed prior to a major break down!



Any answers to the how to diagnose would be very welcome!!

 

[jgibson]

Math to help diagnose tick

This might help a little on figuring out the tick!



Figure about 750 rpm at idle = 375 "injector firings" per cyl (4 stroke) = about 6 ticks per second if only one injector or valve side (intake or exhaust) is causing the noise, this is about the frequency at which my CTD is making the racket. If it was a piston impacting something inside the block the frequency would be about 12 ticks per second .



This math might be a good way to get started at figuring out the culprit

 

[rashwor]

I have noticed the same...

tick in my 1999 ISB 24 valve Ram. It started at less than 100K and the truck is now at 147K+. No worries.

 

[CATCRACKER]

mine sounds like it could make 12 ticks per second. one tick is real loud but the others are a little harder to hear but are there. called DC today to let them know this was my 3rd attempt to get in touch with the star rep. still have the leak from the valve cover bringing in this week. if they keep delaying then i will past the one year mark and forget the lemon law. if you are worried about this problem then get it fixed now dont wait you will be hurting yourself.

 

[d90boy]

I heard a noise on mine as well, it sounded like it was coming from the vicinity of the fuel rail. So I felt around it while the engine was running and found one injector line moving with the sound of the tick. Turned out that one of the injector hold down clamps had worked loose and was making the noise every time the #3 cylinder fired. I tightened it back down and that took care of it, you all might want to check into it.

 

[CATCRACKER]

climbed under my truck this morning to listen from the crank area. the tick got louder down below! things are not looking to good.

 

[MattSt]

Mine has the tick also. I'm not sure where the noise is coming from but a few things I noticed.



First off, I pulled the rubber grommet out of the firewall right near the clutch pedal out and then drove it that way. Can hear the tick load and clear.



I have the Bully Dog box, and the tick gets louder the higher setting I have the box on.



It's really loud in the morning and when it's cold. It was 42 degrees out the other day and it was nice and loud. Drive it a few miles and it gets quieter as it warms up.



If I have a piston installed wrong DC is buying this truck back and I'm getting a new one or they are installing a complete longblock.

 

[JWoodbury]

Mine made that noise when engine was cold & sounded like it was missing out the tail pipe for the first couple hundred miles. But dose not seem to do it any more. There is about 650 miles now

 

[sag2]

MattSt

Read your warranty book. DC has the obligation to fix the engine as they see fit. And besides, why would you want a new one. Just pull the pan and see if the piston is installed back-wards. if so, just pop the head off and install a new piston. If it is just ticking, can't be doing too much damage.

I think sometimes we worry about this stuff too much. If this was a 2nd gen, you wouldn't even be able to tell if it was making a noise. You would just keep smiling as it took you a couple hundred thousand miles of trouble free driving, rattling all the way!

 

[DJohnson]

sag2 is right. my dealer was very restricted by DC on the short block replacement. DC was going to allow an entire engine replacement if the problem had been a main bearing or wrist pin problem due to the potential of metal fragments circulating around. they would not allow the mechanic to simply turn the backwards piston around. one thing I don't understand is why didn't cummins simply design the piston with a notch on both sides to make it idiot proof? seems like it would be better balanced as well. anyway, so far so good on 2000+ miles on the repair with about 50% towing.

 

[Metalaram]

help

hey guys i need some help from those of you who have had work done on this tick. the service mgr at the dealer here says D/C knows nothing about any work that has been done. could you give me any info on the dealer you had work done at and when it was done. any specifics would be great. he asked for last 8 of vin# to bring the history up on the computer but im not sure if people would be comfortable or not with that. im at the point of either i can point them in the right direction to a fix or they will start to take my motor apart and just hope to find something. or not do anything at all. i just want my truck right and to get this over with so i can turbo happily ever after. thanks..... chris

 

[CATCRACKER]

ok guys here is another reason you pay a small fee of $35 to be a member here.



class if you will turn to page 38 of volume 40 of your tdr magazine you will see the refrence j-jet and the piston notch. this will allow you to visualize how a piston is put in 180 degrees off would have a knocking sound. if the piston is put in backwards then the 1st time it would be cranked it would bend the j-jet down at such an angle that it will not spray oil where it is supposed to. in my opinion this is not a big deal at all. however for those of us who want to bomb later you might find that the pistons which are not getting the proper oil spray might over heat and cause serious damage. with that being said this should be and easy problem to diagnose. simply pull the oil pan and look to see which j-jet is bent or look to make sure the notch is correctly placed. this whole procedure might take 45 min to diagnose. next time i change my oil that is what i am going to do. i need the propoer directions for removing and replacing the oil pan.



for you mechanics out there did i over simplify the diagnoses procedure?



i called cummins yesterday they said they have not heard of this problem.



TDR can you post those pics from the above refenced magazine.



later, CC

 

[jgibson]

Knock getting worse

No the sky is not falling, but the noise from my engine is getting louder.



This is my 4th TD and I know they make noises, and my last 3 were so loud that I most likely would have never heard what I do with this HPCR engine. However just because I would not have heard it, would NOT mean there was not something unhealthy going on!



I have been wrenching engines since I was 13 and have always had a good ear for hearing things that just weren't right. Believe me, this noise is not right. I just can't isolate it.



I have better things to do with my time than argue with DC over what is going on. I actually prefer to only visit them with scheduled maintenance. I plan on having this truck (like the others) for near 150K miles, most of that towing heavy loads. So I would much rather find out what this darn knock is BEFORE it causes real damage (assuming it hasn't yet).



CATCRACKER, If you would be so kind... how did DC or you find out that your piston was in wrong? If I have to pull the pan, I will try to find the time, but believe me family and job take enough time that I really don't want to spend time doing that if there is an easier way.



By the way, on my rig (while trying to find the source of the noise) I am able to feel a real resonance on the injector line going to #1 cylinder, like something tapping on the end of it . All of the other lines are without this feeling. Any ideas anyone??

 

[d90boy]

Since there isn't a hold down clamp on #1 I would imagine it's shaking a bit from the fuel injection pulses. I would also think that with an EZ or other box that raises rail pressure, it would amplify this pulsation.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Originally posted by JWoodbury

Mine made that noise when engine was cold & sounded like it was missing out the tail pipe for the first couple hundred miles. . .

Yo Jeff. . . what's this '04 Dodge thing listed in your signature?? Dave didn't tell me you got a new ride! I gotta come by and spec it out tomorrow



So when's Dave going to trade his Powerstroke in for a REAL truck?? :-laf



Vaughn

 

[radar doctor]

Ticking noise solution

Has there been a solution determand on this Clicking Noise and if so what is the fix?? Tks. Bill

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Dremel it?

If I had a 3rd Gen afflicted with this problem I would probably take action and fix it myself. If you drop the pan and indeed have a reversed piston, you should be able to manually rotate the engine to the point where the piston makes contanct with the cooling jet and determine if you could fix the problem by removing a small amount of material from the piston to clear it without affecting engine balance (fractions of a gram). Rotate the engine a bit to grind, rotate back and recheck clearance. Use a feeler gauge or something and give yourself maybe . 040" (approx sparkplug gap which should be plenty)



I think the reason it's loud when cold is your connecting rod is shorter and as it warms and expands, the piston doesn't drop down quite as far. So doing this procedure with a cold engine should do the trick.



Hopefully it's possible to replace a damaged nozzle if it's bent out of position, and hopefully they bolt in automatically aligned so there's no procedures or guesswork involved.



Anyone game to try it?



Vaughn

 

[d90boy]

If the problem is that the piston is installed 180 degrees off cutting the jet down won't really solve the problem. On one side there is one hole for the jet to go into and spray into the piston and 2 holes on the other side for the oil to exit. If the piston is backwards the jet would hit in the middle of the two holes and not cool the piston as it's designed to do. It would basically be kind of like the standard piston cooling jets instead of the gallery cooled piston the HO should have. The only real solution would be to reinstall the piston the right way and replace any bent jets.

 

[sag2]

Actually if the piston is in back-wards, you could just pop the cap off, and rotate the piston 180 degrees. The rings would probably stay in the same place as the piston is rotated. Don't have much to loose, and it wouldn't take that much time to try it. If the jet is bent slightly, bend or replace it.

 

[sstanley]

I have the idle "tick" . Using a mechanics stethoscope the noise can be heard in the #1 injector line, as mentioned above. I added a short section of rubber hose on the line and positioned it to wedge against the intake manifold, and this seem to quiet the tick, so I subscribe to the "Cummins should have added a clamp on the #1 line" theory.