03 Driveline Vibration

[chunter]

While driving my truck on I-90 last week, I noticed an ever so slight vibration at approximately 70 MPH. The vibration was most noticeable when pulling a hill at > 50 MPH or at 70 MPH on the level. If I backed out of the throttle when the vibration occurred, the vibration would cease.

I took my truck into the dealer last Wednesday to have it checked out and they called me last Thursday to tell me that they had to order a complete drive line assy and that it would take 5 days to get it. I picked up my truck today, but the jury is still out vibration.

The work order states the following...



Road test confirms customers complaint. Raised on rack/Ran vehicle/Checked for grounded motor mounts - OK/body mounts -OK/Rear pipe in shaft bent/No sign of hitting anything/Parts ordered.

Removed and replaced 2 piece drive shaft from transfer case to rear axle.

Retest/Drive vehicle/Vibration stopped/Vehicle still has drone at 70 MPH in 6th gear/Had service manager drive/Agree that noise is minimal for vehicle/Asked class about drone/No known repair for drone complaint/Vibration gone at this time.



Do any of you 03 3500 SRW QC Cummins HO 6 spd 4 X 4 owners have a vibration or the drone. Is the drone due to the fact that I am used to the engine noise of the Gen 1 and Gen 2 trucks?

FWIW, my new truck had < 500 miles on it



Thanks,

C. D. Hunter

 

[sag2]

If you want to try something that is easy, mark the position of the front shaft and pull it out. See if the drone is changed or gone. DC eliminated the front axle disconnect last year, and you now have much more mass spinning all the time.

Most of the diesels I've driven have some kind of drone at highway speeds if you really pay attention. With the engine spinning slow and pulling harder than a gas, and being a six, it tends to set up an engine vibration (normal) that can be sent throughout the truck. I'm sure as the trucks get quieter, it might be noticed more.

 

[Steve M]

Mine has some drone around 70mph. It's normal engine vibrations being transmitted through the drive-line. My '95 was so bad the dealer changed out the driveshaft with one that had a damper on the front shaft. That almost eliminated the drone and it was acceptable. My '03 is so quiet the vibration sounds louder but really isn't. It already has the damper on the driveshaft. It's not loud enough that I can't tune it out and ignore it. My '98 5spd was worse but the motor noise was so loud it didn't matter. This one's a keeper!

 

[Prairie Dog]

Mine is very smooth, no vibration at all. I do get a drone at about 70, I just figured it was normal engine noise. It seems to have gotten better as the miles rack up.

 

[chunter]

Thank you all for your responses. The drone is not very loud and it does not bother me, I just wanted to make certain that the drone was not an indication of a problem with my truck.

I drove it to work today and the vibration is gone!

Man do I love this truck



Thank again,

C. D. Hunter

 

[PCline]

Here is something you might want to consider looking at. I just noticed noticed this on my truck last night. It's going into the dealer today.



The main bearing coming out of the trasfer case to the rear drive shaft has an excessive amount of freeplay. I'm guessing . 020 - . 030 inches. I'm going to put a dial indicator on it before it goes to the dealer.



The freeplay results in a vibration that is most noticable around 70 mph (4. 10 diff). Vibration level changes depending on grade and whether my foot is increasing or decreasing throttle. Considering the freeplay I'm very surprised the vibration isn't much worse. I think what is happeneing is that at 70 mph the freeplay and the two piece drive shaft hit a resonance. I feel it mostly in my feet but it is enough to cause the rear-view mirror to vibrate (blurry image).



I would highly recomment checking your freeplay. I slid under my truck and in 2 seconds I knew something was wrong. Just grab the balance weight at the front of the driveshaft. If the bearing is bad you will easily be able to move it up and down and create an audible "clunk".

 

[chunter]

PCline - Good suggestion!



I know that I had a similar vibration that caused the headliner, just to the left of the rear view mirror to rattle at 70 MPH, but since they replaced the driveshaft, it has not reoccurred. I also got under my truck and tried to move the damper on the driveshaft, both up and down and side to side and there is little if any perceptible play.

I take my truck to Enumclaw Dodge for service, since they seem to be on the ball compared to some of the other local dealers.



Thanks,

C. D. Hunter

 

[jcarver]

I have been waiting for someone else to complain about this ever since I drove mine off the dealer's lot! I had the same problem, but through experience and plenty of experimenting, they finally figured out what was causing it. I had it in 3 times before they finally swapped the rear driveshaft with another in-stock unit. The vibration is gone but the exhaust drone is still there. This is something they are obviously getting complaints on, when they called STAR (the tech line), the STAR tech guy got on the horn with Cummins to get some ideas. They had the dealer check all kinds of things, from driveshaft angles to exhaust positioning. They even wanted them to check the mounting and positioning of the turbo (?). When you say vibration, are you talking about something you can actually feel in the truck, or is it more of a resonance or sound? Mine had a little of both, which was causing a nasty resonance in the cab right at 65 mph. If you went a little slower or faster, it would go away. With the different driveshaft, the vibration is gone (felt like a vehicle with a bad u-joint). There is still an exhaust drone at 2000 rpm (65 mph) that is noticeable but not totally annoying. This probably happened in the older trucks but wasn't as noticeable due to the noisier engine. See my signature for the details on the truck. It would be interesting to get a poll going to see which trucks are having the problem (SWB/LWB, manual/auto trans, 2WD/4WD, etc. )

 

[kmcdonough]

I have a similar problem and wonder if it's related to this. I am experiencing a shifting noise in my auto transmission when it shifts into OD. It seems to happen only when the engine is under load (as when going up hill) and remains under load after shifting. Doesn't happen on the flat or if I crest a hill as it shifts into OD and only happens during the shift into OD. The dealer tech says its an external noise (not in the engine or transmission) and I have an appointment to have them look at it next week. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this noise and, if so, do you know the cause? Do you think it may be the drive shaft. I haven't noticed any vibration.

Thanks,

Kevin McD.

03 3500 CTD QC LB

 

[jcarver]

I have the same noise, it happens when the torque converter locks up in OD under load at 40 mph. It will not happen at any other time, and is mostly noticed when towing. If you ease off the throttle as it locks up it wont happen either. It seems to me the noise would be caused by the exhaust shifting or contacting something, the converter locks up pretty quick when it is under load to prevent excessive slip. I think if they raised the lockup point to 45-50 mph it wouldn't happen. 40 mph lockup speed causes the engine rpm to be too low. Maybe there will be a reflash to raise the lockup point.

 

[kmcdonough]

Thanks for the info. I'll mention it when it goes to the shop. My tanny shifts into OD at about 48 mph, so I dont know if re-flashing it will help.



Kevin McD.

 

[sag2]

Mine makes a vibrating sound occasionally when under load and the converter locks up. Sounds like a shield or the exhaust vibrating. Only is there for a split second so I don't worry about it.

 

[PCline]

The noise you are hearing may be the turbo waste gate. When the engine RPM changes quickly, like when the torque converter locks up, the waste gate tends to open and close rapidly, causing a "flapping" sound.

 

[kmcdonough]

The dealer looked at my truck yesterday and called DC. They said the noise is the waste gate on the turbo and is "normal". They also said they took another truck out but couldn't get it to make the same noise. One thing for sure, it gets your attention.

 

[chunter]

Truck still has vibration

Well I took my truck on a trip over the weekend from North Bend, WA to Auburn, CA and back, which gave me a lot of time to get to know the truck better. I drove the truck for almost 13 hours straight (not counting the 20 minute fuel stop in Yreka), so I had plenty of time to determine that there is still a vibration. The vibration is most noticeable at 2000 RPM in 5th or 6th gear when climbing a hill. The vibration I refer to can be felt through the seat of the pants and in the steering wheel when pulling a grade at the specified RPM.

I took the truck back to the dealer today and they told me that Dodge is aware of the vibration problem, but they do not have a resolution yet. One of the technicians told me that he has a 94 Dodge with a Cummins and it has always had a drive line vibration.

I told the tech that this was my 3rd new Dodge/Cummins 4 X 4 and none of the previous trucks had this problem and that my 2001 2500 QC 4 X 4 rode like a Cadillac when compared to my 92 W250 Club Cab 4 X 4 and that neither one of them had this vibration. Anyway, the dealer has my truck and they are going to compare it to some of the other 03 4 X 4 Cummins powered trucks on the lot. The tech that had previously replaced the drive shaft told me that he had noticed the vibration as well during his road test of my truck and that he had noticed it on other 03 diesel powered Rams as well.

Anybody else out there experiencing similar symptoms?



Thanks,

C. D. Hunter



BTW - I got 18+ MPG on the trip running 65 - 70 MPH and I only have 2700 miles on my truck.

 

[Mathew Clausen]

Mine feels as you describe - except I have not been able to get the vibration in 5th, only 6th at ~70mph. This was leading me to think it was a driveline vibration, and I have been considering removing the front driveline out of curiousity to see if that solves it. But if you are getting the same thing in 5th and it is only RPM related - perhaps it is a belt or accessory vibration? I am pretty sure I have tried running to 2000 or so in neutral and can't get any vibe to occur though. Strange.



I guess the good news is that it seems if you are above or below that speed it is not an issue.



Mathew

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

The first couple of trucks I test drove late last fall had a noticeable driveline vibration, like the phase angle was wrong on the pinion or out of balance driveline. Also there was noticeable engine vibes through the steering wheel.



I test drove a HO 4x4 longbed Monday and it didn't have any of these symptoms, much less vibes through the wheel and smooth as silk in the highway.



chunter are you going to come to Rob's BOMB party in Enumclaw this coming weekend? Check out www.nwbombers.com



Vaughn

 

[PCline]

I've been chasing my vibration problem for 6 weeks now. It feels like a bad u-joint. It comes on at about 65mph, peaks at 70mph, and then fades out after that.



The dealer tried to tell me this is normal and I about threw him out the window. I took the mechanic for a drive and he agreed, it is not normal. This is what has been accomplished so far:



Check and Adjustment of pinion angle - No change

Replaced driveshaft - No change

Installed Chassis Ears (microphones) - Confirmed vibration is at driveline frequency

Replaced rear Transfer Case output shaft and bushing - Slight change for the better

New Transfer Case on order - should arrive 2/20.



I have an automatic, and chunter has the manual, so I don't think it's related to the transmission. Also, I have revved through the RPMs in neutral and have zero vibration.



I also don't think it's related to the front driveshaft since I can change the amplitude of the vibration by accelerating or decelerating (i. e. , changing the load through the drive train).



I'm hoping the Transfer Case is the ticket.



Anyone out there with a vibration I recommend pushing your dealer hard until they get it fixed.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Another way to confirm driveline is when you are at the speed where it's the most noticeable, drop it into neutral.



If I was obsessive about tracking it down I'd jack up your rig and put it on a GOOD set of sturdy jackstands and start it up and put it into high gear. Crawl under there and see if you can spot anything that isn't right.



I don't see how the Xfer case can be the source of the problem



Maybe you got two off-balance driveshafts in a row? There are places that you can take a driveshaft to that can balance them to tighter tolerances than the factory. Good luck.



Vaughn

 

[PCline]

Good inputs Vaughn.



I am obsessive, so as you can guess I have jacked it up and run to 70mph. The truck was pointed away from the house I had my dad go up and down through 70 mph. I found that the output shaft of the transfer case seemed to be the center of the vibration. See my post above, but at that time I found what I thought was loose bearing/bushing. When moving the damper up and down I could create a "clunk". The dealer originally told me it was within specs but then later changed out anyway. That didn't fix the problem but so far it's the only change that has improved it.



I have also dropped it into neutral at speed. The problem goes away. That tells me the driveshaft is balanced. I think it's because the drive train is not "loaded up" in neutral so everything finds its happy home. When loaded, something is being force of center.



jmho