03 Driveline Vibration

[jlevesque]

We had a 03 ram at my dealer with the same complaint same speed, and you would swear it was drivline. the truck was being

worked on at another dealer for almost 4 months, and then we

inherited it, after checking all the usual stuff, decided to have

all the tires balanced on a radial force balancer which applies a

roller to the surface of the tire simulating road load. its the

newest type of balancer and it works awesome, anyway it

completely solved the problem, dealers that dont have this

type of balancer can sublet the job under warranty.

this problem seems to occur mostly on goodyear tires.



James

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

PCline, maybe jack it up again and do the same test without the rear tires Still might want to point it away from the house for safe measure!



That is strange it only happens under load. That would point to a U-joint, but those should've been replaced with the driveshaft.



Maybe something is afoul in the rear end.



Vaughn

 

[jcarver]

Thank you PCline for posting!! I was starting to think I was the only one that has this problem! Our trucks are almost identical - auto trans, 4x4, 4. 10 diff. Mine is a SWB, yours is a LWB, but same driveline combo. Your complaint is EXACTLY the same as mine. The only thing the dealer has done to mine is swap rear driveshafts with another truck, which seemed to help at first but now I can feel it again. Something that I have found that seems to affect it is when the truck is in 4wd, the noise and vibration is even worse, and does it anywhere from 50mph to 70 mph, not just from 65-70 mph. You should try that and let me know if yours does the same thing. That would support the transfer case theory. I am starting to wonder about the front driveshaft as well. Very frustrating problem!!!! My wife constantly complains about it, she gets mad at me for not taking it back and complaining but I cant see wasting any more days in the shop for them to throw parts at it. I'm hoping someone will finally solve the mystery so I can take it in and have it fixed once and for all. This problem is the only thing keeping this truck from being absolutely perfect. PCline, I am anxiously awaiting the results from the transfer case swap. Keep us informed.

 

[Steve M]

I'm scheduled to have my tires balanced tomorrow on the new balancing maching. Service writer said it's a common problem and the symptoms are what we're feeling. Mine does it ever so slightly at 55 and a little worse at 65. Not enough to cause lost sleep but enough to make you think about it. I lowered my tire pressure to 60psi and it changed the vibration. I think the service writer is on to something. Sounds like James' dealership is seeing the same thing...

 

[PCline]

I'm scheduled to have my tires balanced tomorrow on the new balancing machine. Service writer said it's a common and the symptoms are what we're feeling

jcarver... are the symptoms really at driveline frequency? I'm having a hard time understanding how tire balancing could feel like a bad u-joint.



However, I am going to lower my tire pressure tonight and see what happens.



Anyone know where a radial force balancer is in the Pacific NW? I'll try anything at this point.



My dealer just informed that D/C sent him directly to the manufacturer to get my T-Case and the manufacturer wants the dealer to perform a couple of tests before they'll send the new T-Case.



Tests are 1) take the rear propeller shaft out and drive the truck and 2) put it in neutral while the vibration is occurring. I've told them I've done the neutral test (vibration goes away), and I've jacked the rear end up and duplicated the vibration (front wheels weren't moving), but they've got to do it themselves.

 

[jcarver]

I don't personally see how it could be a tire balance problem. On my truck, not only can you feel it you can hear it. It is a resonance/rumble type noise, just like a bad u-joint (like PCline said) Can you hear a resonance-type noise on yours PCline? Have you tried the 4wd yet to see if it does what mine is doing? Put it in 4wd, and then run it up between 50-70 mph. Let me know what yours does. Then we can compare. I don't think re-balancing tires would cure this concern. If it was a vibration, yes. But this is more than a vibration. There is a definite noise.

 

[chunter]

Vaughn - Appreciate the invite, but I have to work this weekend, maybe next year.

BTW - I am thinking about pulling both drive shafts and taking them to a drive line shop in Kirkland to have them checked.

I do not think it is related to the tires, since I can coast down hill at 70+ without any hint of a vibration. Even while coasting at 70+ I can bring the RPM up to 2000 and it is still smooth.

 

[Briman]

I have a three day old 3500 SRW 6 speed HO quadcab longbox. I noticed the drive line vibration very quickly. I happens most above 50 and starts to get bad at 70. 75 is no fun because of the vibration. I pushed on stuff and found the front drive shaft where it connects to the transfer case to have more slop than I would expect. I am wondering if it is the front drive shaft, since it is turning all the time. This vibration has nothing to do with the diesel shake or drone. The tires should be force variance balanced at the factory. Thats why they have a sticker on the tire, and one on the rim when the truck gets to the dealer. I am going to talk to the dealer tomorrow.

 

[chunter]

Briman - When I was checking my fluid levels before my trip to California, I checked both the front and rear drive shafts at the xfer case and diff ends and they were both fine. BTW - You may want to check your fluid levels. The rear diff was down 1. 5 Qts, the front diff was down . 5 Qts, the xfer case was down 1 Qt. and the trans was down almost 1 Qt.

Good luck with your new truck.



C. D. Hunter

 

[jcarver]

Let's keep after this guys, there has to be a way to fix it. I am going to run this thread off and talk to my dealer and see if they will call STAR and ask them if they have come up with a fix.

 

[PCline]

This is directly out of the '03 manual.

Tires that are out-of-round or wheels that are unbalanced, will cause a low frequency vibration. Brake drums that are unbalanced will cause a harsh, low frequency vibration. Propeller shaft vibration increases as the vehicle speed is increased. A vibration that occurs within a specific speed range is not usually caused by a propeller shaft being unbalanced. Defective universal joints or an incorrect propeller shaft angle are usually the cause of such a vibration.

Since most of are dealing with a vibration that occurs at a specific speed, I think we're dealing with something similar to defective u-joints or bad pinion angles. I've had the propeller shaft replaced and the pinion angles check twice so I know that's not the problem.



In my opinion, a bad bearing in the T-case could produce the same phenomenon as a bad u-joint. I'm meeting with the dealer next Wed 2/26 so he can do the tests requested by the T-case manufacturer. I'm convinced the "tests" will support my theory and replacement of the T-case will solve the problem.

 

[amsoilman]

My dealer said this is a very normal situation. It's a combination of the Cummins engine and the truck. This is his quote: "This noise/vibration is normal, and all Cummins Diesels do the same thing"!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[PCline]

Tell that dealer to go pound sand!



Between my dad and I we have owned 5 Dodge/Cummins between us. None of them have vibrated like this truck does.



Did they resonate and/or drone at certain rpm/speed? Absolutely! I've even come to expect and like that feature of these trucks.



My dealer also tried to tell me it was "the nature of these trucks". That was only after he had monkeyed with the pinions angles (twice), replaced the driveshaft, and replaced the output shaft of the t-case. What he was really saying was "I've tried the cheap and easy fixes and they didn't work so I'm ready to give up. " Unacceptable.



I hope anyone out there who is experiencing this doesn't knuckle under to dealer pressure. Ride 'em hard and make 'em fix it

 

[Steve M]

I didn't beleive it either but after having my tires rebalanced today, the vibration is gone. I would have sworn it was drive line. It would even pulsate like a drive shaft vibration. The only downside is they gouged one of my rims and scuffed a tire. It looks like they ran over something in the shop. The service writer is ordering a new rim and tire for my truck.

 

[chunter]

jcarver - The tech at my dealer called STAR while I was there and he said that their response was that they are aware of the problem, but do not have a solution yet.



Steve M - Who balanced your tires and was it the dealer's idea or did you have to suggest it? I am still puzzled, since my vibration goes away at 70 MPH with the clutch in or the trans in neutral.



Anybody else out there going to have their tires balanced?



Thanks,

C. D. Hunter

 

[Steve M]

It was the service writer's idea. He said it's a common problem with the new trucks. When I told him it feels like driveline vibration and could even be engine pulses resonating through the driveline like the previous trucks had, and that it starts around 55mph and seems worse at 65mph and better at 70mph, he said it's the tires. He said if it were a driveshaft, I'd feel it at lower speeds. So now it rides smooth and I'd be happy as a puppy with two peckers if they hadn't damaged my new truck in the process.

 

[Briman]

Even considering having to have the tires rebalanced bothers me. If the rims are like the alloys on the 2nd gen standard weights don't fit well and tend to fall off. Removing the existing weights scrapes the plastic coating and I haven't met a tire guy yet that knows how to take off the center cap without scraping the finish... I'm sorry for going off. It just pisses me off about this vibration. I did check my diffs last night and will check the transfer case in the morning. I'll check the trans as well but don't have the proper fluid in stock to add any. This all sucks. I got my dealer survey emailed to me yesterday and will certainly fill it in accordingly.

 

[jlevesque]

this problem also occurs on 1500 series rams with the 20" rims,

and the same speed, radial force balancing also fixes them,

remember the type of balancer for this condition is critical.

hunter gsp 9700 road force balancer.

you can also try and find someone that has a electronic vibration

analyser. if it was my truck i would have the dealer do this first,

you might be surprised. they may not be familiar with this so you

may want to go to hunters site and find the nearest shop that

has this equipment, and relay it to the dealer.

D. C warr will pay for this service at a outside shop.





James

 

[TBOB]

vibration

Vibrations here and there. Just to let you know you may want look at the pinion angle to the drive line. Mine was almost straight. I added 1. 5 deg shims between axles and springs to lower the pinion and give it more angle. It has smoothed out the drone at 70 MPH. It's about 4 deg from pinion to shaft. Good luck, love the truck. TBOB

 

[Steve M]

Just took a longer trip on a smoother highway. The vibration is still there. I've had four of these trucks and they've all had a slight vibration at 2100rpm. There was a TSB on the '95 for it. Dodge installed a drive shaft with a vibration damper in it. The '03s come with a vibration damper. I'm about ready to accept that it's normal engine pulses being transmitted through the driveline just like it's always been. The difference is this one is so quiet that the vibration stands out more without the noise to go with it. Exhaust drone is also at 2100 rpm when the muffler goes. It's too silky smooth at 1900 and 2250rpm to be a driveshaft. Take a hose clamp and strap a small bolt to the driveshaft and take a short ride. You'll see the difference.

If it's not that, it could also be tread squirm from the tires. They have some mighty deep tread and a new design. That'll cause a vibration even if the tire's balanced perfectly. Goodyear had some squirm problems a few years ago. Have you crossed a steel grate bridge yet? They'll grab your attention in a hurry as you zig zag accross the bridge. Just a thought...

Just for comparison. Mine's not a 4X4. The PSD also has an engine vibration at a certain rpm. The vibration in mine is very similar to the vibration it has sitting still with the transmission in gear. Just enough to feel it and blur the windshield's rear view mirror. And about the same frequency.

Just for shts and giggles, I'm going to put 80psi in the tires and take the same smooth highway trip again and see if it changes anything. I have 60psi in all four now.