04.5 bad news story/lessons learned

[S.Morris]

One of my sons service trucks layed down a few days ago... ... . With 200K miles on the odometer.



Truck pulls emergency road service trailer 99% of time, about 7-8K .



Truck started to exhibit a occasional light high speed miss on return to base from about 60 miles out. About 10 miles out started to see occasional puffs of black and power off a little. Pulled into yard and hooked trailer to spare truck, and parked the 04. 5.



Knowing that injectors seemed the culprit, started looking into replacements. Todd at K&C was very helpful in bringing me up to speed in the lack thereof of NEW replacements. Going with the next best, I was able to track down 6 Cummins remans, but had to go to two different cities to come up with the 6.



Two days after parking truck, fired it up to drive into shop... ... . fuel knock at idle , not good, was not doing this when parked.



Went about replacing the injectors(first time for us on CR Dodge). Job completed in about 5hrs, thanks to some good pointers from this board writeups.

 

[S.Morris]

Hit wrong button:-laf



Started engine and fired right up with no more knock and idled smoothly. Went for a little test run..... (at night). Ran well , good power, but thought could see some white/blue smoke . Back to shop. Turns out , as soon as rpm above 1500 starts to smoke blue. Below no smoke at all.



Pull exhaust manifold and see #6 is where smoke coming from



Subcontract cummins engine man (real slow at internantional) to look farther.



Getting ahead of myself... ... This guy pulled engine and had completely stripped to bare block sitting on pallet in less than 6hrs (and his first dodge!!)



At issue... . #6 cyl scored and oil rings broken inseveral places. 2nd comp ring in 2, and #2cyl exhibited cyl score/scuff in one 1/2" wide area.

 

[S.Morris]

Surmised ring breakage in #6 from dumping fuel from open injector at shutdown when truck first parked, and hydroing slightly on startup to move into shop.



What did not expect to find is that this engine is badly carboned up to the point of seizing some rings in other holes(hence scuff in #2) Cyl hash marks still evident but very dark. Cam, Main, and rod bearings show excessive wear for mileage.



Couple of things went on here. Oil changes were not being done as documented by driver of this truck, hence the bearing wear. Other thing is that the trucks sometimes idle for 3or 4 hrs at a time in winter at calls. Apparently running too cold (smjr idle up feature added last winter but apparently too late). Block is getting 6 sleeved and all honed in Montreal at big engine machine shop.

Engine will be brought back to almost new spec and reinstalled.

 

[S.Morris]

Just a lesson in what poor maintenance(although didnt show this on paper). Bad luck in failed open injector, with very little warning, and idling in cold weather can do. This will be a 10G lesson at least , minus one fired mechanic.



We have a 97 (just retired from rust) with 947K on it that saw this service the last half of its life. A 99, an 03(to replace 97) and an 05 in same service.



We were planning on getting a new 2011 or 2012 but now experience would indicate the 6. 7 emission will not like this duty cycle. For this reason have been looking at the new Duramax's also but very hesitant in decision .



Apparently the Dmax in its newest form is much less susceptable to sooting with less EGR return. ? EGR blocks would be a necessity I think. Cant delete as have annual commercial safety.

Would a 6. 7 egr unplugged survive this type of use?

Sorry for the long post..... thinking outloud, and looking for advice on new truck

 

[TCDiesel]

Make sure You send the Pump to Me for some freshening Up. . Don't let the hackers touch it. . Install EB for long periods of Idle better consumption and longer engine life... if you get the 6. 7 get it with the CC and install bed. . Its much easier and better to build that engine and it comes with the Asian, 68re is weak.

 

[TCDiesel]

The LML D-max has it set of problems also, and Injectors are $600. 00+ each. . the CP3. 4 in My opinion is a 150k pump and will need complete build or R/R. Everything on the D-Max will cost Double the Cummins ,and in some cases triple the Labor.

 

[Tinman]

I don't think this had anything to do with this Cummins not being able to survive this duty and everything to do with in not being maintained properly and run incorrectly (idling so long). I am not aware that the 6. 7 can't survive heavier duty (such as this) because it has more egr and no urea injection as the Duramax does (but that is a interesting question). Do the new emissions shorten engine service life compared to older engines? Intuition says yes, but real life may prove otherwise. I can't imagine Duramax out performing a Cummins. Sorry about your troubles.

 

[S.Morris]

Todd



Cannot go to cab and chassis as Dot reg up here then require a CVOR for that veh, which means logs, daily inspect, and driver infractions fined against whole fleet.

This is part of reason why we run DRW..... very stable all the time especially in bad winter weather (have tried srw) and we can load tongue heavier and keep truck weight under 10K and trailer axle weight just under cut off for LOTs more headache.



In general the trucks have to idle in winter to power lots of flashers etc... would kill batteries too low to start in an hour .



Would a 6. 7 with EGR disconnected and idled up to say 1200rpm be feasable.



Considering adding ESPAR coolant heater that will run even when truck running to maintain coolant temp?

 

[S.Morris]

Tinman



Just making point that the old 97 in same use with almost a million died because of body failure not engine in same type of use. Even now it will start quicker than you can get your hand off the key:-laf



Looking to get into newer stuff with less issues... ... . but seems things are going backwards instead of forward.

 

[HBarlow]

The ISB6. 7 engines are programmed from factory to idle up to reduce smog issues and even clean the dpf. I think a 6. 7 would serve you well with or without EGR.

Are you sure about all those requirements you listed for cab and chassis trucks? I thought Canadian DOT regulations were very close to identical with USDOT regs. I can believe that a C&C might require a commercial liability policy but in business you already have that. Under USDOT daily logs are not required when operating within a 150 radius from home terminal.

 

[TCDiesel]

The ISB6. 7 engines are programmed from factory to idle up to reduce smog issues and even clean the dpf. I think a 6. 7 would serve you well with or without EGR.



Are you sure about all those requirements you listed for cab and chassis trucks? I thought Canadian DOT regulations were very close to identical with USDOT regs. I can believe that a C&C might require a commercial liability policy but in business you already have that. Under USDOT daily logs are not required when operating within a 150 radius from home terminal.

Yep. . HB the 68re is the problem in commercial use... the Idle time will double the operational cost... Believe ME I know and have experience the cost. I am seriously considering the CC and pickup conversion. The Fluid is NO problem I has access to raw materials necessary to make it.

 

[HBarlow]

If S. Morris' truck useage requires lots of idle time for the jobs his trucks or employees perform operational cost of idle time with an ISB6. 7 would not be any more concern than with a 5. 9 so why would a 6. 7 be an issue?

 

[TCDiesel]

Hmmmm. . The Idle time will double his fuel consumption. . triple his service times. . The DPF will need replacing 3 times sooner. The EGR will need cleaning on regular basis.



The state in which the vehicle use will determine the longevity and service, Here in MN we have 5% mandatory Bio-Diesel,Even here owners have their share of emission problems with the 6. 7.



Hopefully Cummins will upgrade the 6. 7 to High tech status and be done with the Blue tech engine. . Unlike You HB I will not support products that are NOT up to MY standards and the 6. 7 blue tech motor falls way short along with most engines being build at this time,My suggestion is to run the 5. 9s until no longer feasible, and force these manufacturer's to bring to the pavement something worth 50k,Otherwise my money is saying in My bank account until they do. Don't blame the EPA they had over a decades notice,Heck I will go back to gas if they don't,Why spend $8k more for the Engine/Trans combo just to have the same mileage and service and operating cost.

 

[HBarlow]

Hmmmm. . The Idle time will double his fuel consumption. . triple his service times. . The DPF will need replacing 3 times sooner. The EGR will need cleaning on regular basis.

The state in which the vehicle use will determine the longevity and service, Here in MN we have 5% mandatory Bio-Diesel,Even here owners have their share of emission problems with the 6. 7.

Hopefully Cummins will upgrade the 6. 7 to High tech status and be done with the Blue tech engine. . Unlike You HB I will not support products that are NOT up to MY standards and the 6. 7 blue tech motor falls way short along with most engines being build at this time,My suggestion is to run the 5. 9s until no longer feasible, and force these manufacturer's to bring to the pavement something worth 50k,Otherwise my money is saying in My bank account until they do. Don't blame the EPA they had over a decades notice,Heck I will go back to gas if they don't,Why spend $8k more for the Engine/Trans combo just to have the same mileage and service and operating cost.

As usual you are posting a lot of exaggerated baloney based on nothing but your uninformed opinions. You don't own or drive a Ram with ISB6. 7 and know nothing about them.

How could you expect anyone to believe such garbage as "The Idle time will double his fuel consumption?" You have no idea how many highway miles his trucks travel on an annual basis, how many hours, or what percentage of total operating hours his trucks idle.

"triple his service times?" What does that stupidity mean? Did you mean cut his service interval miles to one third? Your comment is nonsense! Have you ever heard of "Net Zero"? I didn't think so.

"The DPF will need replacing 3 times sooner. The EGR will need cleaning on regular basis. " Another dumb statement.

As I wrote in my first post, the cab and chassis engine is programmed to increase idle speed during long idle periods and goes into a net zero mode which reduces soot production and even cleans the dpf.

Have you read this comment from an article published by Robert Patton in the October issue of TDR magazine?

"Over the past two years, the 6. 7-liter engine has had its share of teething problems, mostly software and engine calibration updates (flashes). I am pleased to report that warranty problems on the 6. 7-liter are now lower than those of the final year of the 5. 9-liter engine that was used from model years '03 - '07. Additional good news about the 6. 7-liter engine: In April of 2008, Cummins announced that it had earned the Automotive News PACE (Premier Automotive Supplier's Contribution to Excellence) Award for the 6. 7-liter engine (Issue 61, page 48). "

It also appears on the TDR webpage.

Try reading and learning something for a change. All you have done in this thread is expose your ignorance. You are just another guy who doesn't own a new truck with ISB6. 7 engine, probably can't afford one, and spend your time criticising something you know nothing about - possibly due to your own envy.

 

[TCDiesel]

HB this was form ownership... How stupid are YOU. . Your loyalty is Mis-directed. I can't afford. . Now you are insulting someone wealth. Anyone who disagrees with You you insult. Envy Hmmmmm doesn't exist in Me along with jealousy, and coveting. You are obsess to the point of blindness.



Cummins calls it teething Problem,When some infant is getting teeth coming it doesn't effect anyone but the child. 1000s of owners had to pay for the down time and trips to the dealer for these so-called teething Problems. By the way the 6. 0 got similar awards back in 03.



You have No Idea how many ERG,Turbo,Transmission have plagued the 6. 7 68re combo,the MT has much better success. Even the service intervals are half the 5. 9 under the best condition. You are the poster child in most of your posts for being a fool,ignorant, and insulting.



Go back to the political forum and stay thier,If Cummins was getting beat 50-0 with 2 minutes left you still would be cheeleading. :-laf:-laf

 

[S.Morris]

The Dot rules up hear state that if truck does not come equipped from factory with box ala CC along with GVWR rating of truck it must be run with CVOR it used in business... paraphrasing from memory. We have a very good contact in DOT that has steered us out of trouble on occassion



The trucks normally idle 2-3hrs at jobs(in winter more so) and up to 8hrs on occassion.

I know the 04. 5 is a case of poor maintenance to a point, and the injector failure came 2 weeks after truck was run out of fuel (first time ever). It was late at night in remote area and was just 5 min from fuel when it quit.

This truck did not use any oil... ...

My concern comes from seeing how carboned up the rings were aside from the injector issue with #6.

I just dont feel comfortable putting EGR equipped truck in this service.

Finding a good drw with reasonable mileage is getting very hard to come by for 3rd gen and have had to travel 4-5 hrs to find last 03 we purchased.

 

[TCDiesel]

I will Keep you in mind ,Are you only interested in DRW? the 6. 7 when stripped is equal to the 5. 9. I wonder if the truck needs to meet the certification if purchased out of area used? for both Emissions and DOT.

 

[HBarlow]

As I wrote in a previous post

"Try reading and learning something for a change. All you have done in this thread is expose your ignorance. You are just another guy who doesn't own a new truck with ISB6. 7 engine, probably can't afford one, and spend your time criticising something you know nothing about - possibly due to your own envy. "

 

[BIGNASTY]

Well !!!!anyone for Sunday Supper down by the river music/talking/dancing. guldam and I will be there!!!!!!! To continue the discussion on who's the biggest TREE HUGER. Just BYOBeer and join in on the festivities :-laf SOUNDS LIKE SOME COULD USE A FEW

 

[macdaddy]

Go back to the political forum and stay thier,If Cummins was getting beat 50-0 with 2 minutes left you still would be cheeleading. :-laf:-laf

Looks like TC should bone up on spelling too!!!!



Mac