04 vrs 04 1/2?

[Thoennes]

is there really any difference between the 04 555 and the 04 1/2 600? other then better mileage in the 04 can anyone say there is a power difference? i have driven both and can't say i noticed anything different. fuel mileage is about 7 mpg better on 04 . thanks jerry

 

[Prairie Dog]

I have the 305/555 and with the TST I can add about 20 H. P with the flick of a switch. You can feel a difference but it's very small.

 

[RedDieselDawg]

Oh Oh, let me try a controversial question!!!

Yes, there are real differences between the 04 and 04. 5, but they are not all that significant. I look at it as an update versus a new motor. So what was the purpose of the “update”, I think it was primarily ecologic. I may be wrong, but it looked to me like CTD was trying to be more green friendly and more efficient. I would guess this related to regulations, but I did not look it up. The problem there is you loose performance, unless you make some changes that will at least maintain, if not increase power. CTD made enough changes such as pistons and exhaust to counter the cat and other eco friendly changes. The cost as we see is a probable decrease in mileage. The premise that” you can’t have it all”, or my philosophy that “life is a balance” works here as it does almost everywhere else. I think the STOCK 04. 5’s will always lag behind the stock 04’s a couple MPG’s due to what was changed. Just like the stock ’04 will lag in HP and Tq.



We can all change our intakes to remove restriction, we can use a box to un-detune the dang motor, but once you start pushing more air, which is matched by fuel, or vice versa, mileage and emissions will start to change too. I could almost watch my fuel gauge drop while I blasted up mountain sides in a supercharged ford 5. 4 with full boost, that’s one reason I went diesel. It worked fine in Ohio, but it sucked gas like pig in these mountains.



The 04. 5 is newer, but how many prospective buyers will know at resale time is debatable. It has few more ponies and some torque, but appears to have lost 1-3MPG compared to the ’04. It is greener, but that cat causes several potential problems. My guess is this debate will end in a few months, about the time there aren’t any ‘04’s to be had anymore anyway.



It looks and sounds newer, it is hard to turn anyway from the "improved" shiny object, but I am very happy with my ’04.



JMHO, please don't shoot

:-{}

 

[AKAMAC]

It seems funny to me that to make the eco-nazis happy we decrease the emmissions by 10 to 15% at the cost of fuel mileage to the tune of 10 to 15%. Looks good on the emmissions board gold star card, but we end up with fuel tonnage increase. Explain that to me... ... .....

 

[BApple]

So just take the cat off... . and your done.

 

[MVaden]

How much will taking the cat off really help with milage? I would really like to hear from any one who knows.



I also agree with AKAMAC about lowering the emmissions while at the same time having a loss in fuel efficiency.



Sounds like were just kissen our sister.

 

[WMcGuire]

To Cat or Not to Cat

MHO is the CAT plays a very miniscule part in the MPG figure, the EGR sys that it replaced was by far a mileage reducer, but yes, you can remove the CAT (not legally), you wont see any real improvement, in fact sometimes taking things off just makes the problem worse, the engine ECM is programmed with the CAT in place, unless the ECM is re-programmed, it will still give that last squirt for emissions reduction.

 

[klenger]

In addition to 20 more HP, the 04. 5 also has 4" exhaust, better engine cooling and it appears that Dodge also incorporated all the fixes that the 03-04's had with droneing, etc. I agree that once the 600's are the only new trucks to be had, much of the debate will die out. I suppose that the 03-04's will be sought after in much the same way as the 1998 quad cab 12 valve trucks.



If the 04. 5 milage did indeed drop by say 10% (less than 2 MPG), then my annual fuel cost will go up by about $200. Not much of a factor when you consider all the other costs I have in owning a $40,000 truck and a $30,000 camper.

 

[RedDieselDawg]

ya see this every time there is a change. It's like chasing the ever increasing PC processor speed, there is always going to be a new and improved model around the corner. You could argue either side pretty well, there isn't that dramatic a difference.



The 600's are newer with increased stock HP and TQ, ya can't argue that. How much "better" is an '04. 5 than an '04 with everything considered, I'd say not a bunch. I do know the difference between my old 360hp truck and the improved 380hp version was barely noticable. Besides, we all want to drop a few bombs anyway. Of course my '04 is legal without a cat.

 

[GCross]

The bad news is, this emissions vs performance issue has been going on since the 60's and there's no end in sight. The next round in 2007 will probably require that all diesel engines be equiped with EGR (some already are). Cummins engineers were able to develop a 50 state engine with a CAT and new fuel injection system. Unfortunately this seems to have cost a few MPG but avoided EGR. By 2009 all automotive engines, gas and diesel will have to conform to the California (CARB) emissions requirement.

 

[WMcGuire]

IMHO if you only work your truck hard occasionly it seems hardly worth the cost to modify the engine for trivial gains in MPG, if you work the truck hard constantly and need more power, then, dammitall..... A MAN'S GOTTA DO WHAT A MANS GOTTA DO!!!!!

 

[BApple]

By 2009 all automotive engines, gas and diesel will have to conform to the California (CARB) emissions requirement.

Not ALL engines, mine won't.

 

[MartinBlair]

I notice my 04 california special gets the oil dirty very quick. . 1000 mi and it's very dark. . I'm told the EGR on this thing is the problem. . Any input?? I want to throw this EGR thing in the garbage. . I'm also told that sooting your intake system can clog up and cause problems. . It just sounds like a very bad thing all around for the small amount of nox it lowers. . Help, I want my engine to stay clean and last. . Marty

Originally posted by WMcGuire

MHO is the CAT plays a very miniscule part in the MPG figure, the EGR sys that it replaced was by far a mileage reducer, but yes, you can remove the CAT (not legally), you wont see any real improvement, in fact sometimes taking things off just makes the problem worse, the engine ECM is programmed with the CAT in place, unless the ECM is re-programmed, it will still give that last squirt for emissions reduction.

 

[patrickreyn]

all 04s and 04. 5 will have defective rear ends that chrysler will not fix. they have notified dealers to not replace any rear ends that make howls. they have referred the problem back to american and quess what they dont care.

 

[klenger]

all 04s and 04. 5 will have defective rear ends

I must be hard of hearing.

 

[DPelletier]

no kidding!



Dave

 

[DanDee]

Well in my humble opinion... in California the 04 vs 04. 5 question was very easy...



230hp vs 325 HP!!!!



DanDee

 

[Yo Hoot]

Originally posted by patrickreyn

all 04s and 04. 5 will have defective rear ends that chrysler will not fix. they have notified dealers to not replace any rear ends that make howls. they have referred the problem back to american and quess what they dont care.

They always howled..... you can hear them now that they quieted the engine down



Seriously... is this a big issue? Haven't seen a lot of it talked about.

 

[RobbieH]

I'm not sure what the heck he's talking about concerning the rear ends. My '03 howled loudly, I took it in one time and mentioned it, and they installed an entire new axle. Problem solved, no complaints.

 

[HOCummins04]

Only a little less than 600 miles on my 04. 5, and no rear end howl so far.