05' engine knocking, rebuild or replace?

[MD500E]

Hi guys, I just did something really stupid! I lost oil pressure on the gauge the other morning about 1 min after I started it for the first time of the day. I shut it down and restarted it and the pressure came back up. I have been having some electrical gremlins lately so I did not give it a lot of thought and I continued on. About a mile or so later it did the same thing but now I am on a little highway with no shoulder and had to continue for almost 2 miles to find a spot to stop. Before i could get there I heard a dreadful sound as it started knocking. I puled over and shut it down a quickly as I could. I checked the oil and there is nothing on the stick! I walked to a gas station and came back with 4 quarts of oil, which brought it back up on the stick. I re started it and it quieted down and sounded normal. My next mistake was to continue on down the highway because after about 15 miles it started knocking again. I pulled over and had it towed. I plan to drop the oil pan and cut open the oil filter this week to see what kinds of metal I find. Truck is an 05' with 80K miles. I am looking for some advice. Should I do a Cummins recon short/long block, or should I take it somewhere to have my engine rebuilt. I was thinking about calling Enterprise out in Ohio or Scheids diesel. I am in eastern PA. Anyone else you guys can recommend? I am guessing this little mistake is going to cost about 5-6 grand. Am I in the ballpark? The one advantage I can see in going with say Scheids is that I could have them throw in a cam and some head studs while they have it apart. At least then I may end up with at least some benefit after this costly adventure is finally over. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Kevin

 

[Shadrach]

Getting the pan off will be fun. Take the oil filter of and cut it open first ( if you don't know what I'm talking about just ask ) I bought my 03 already blowed up and did a custom rebuild ( me and a Cummins mechanic friend ). This way I got what I wanted. I'm not a big fan of "off the shelf" rebuilds. I kept mine stock except for a cam. Shad

 

[07 ThunderRoad]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck. If you could, please find out what happened to the oil level. Where did the oil go? Leaking seal, gasket, rings? Is there any thing you could have done to prevent this from happing? Did the truck have any other early warning issues that there was a problem? This type of failure scares the crap out of me.

I have seen other posts where the op filed a claim, against their full coverage policy, with their insurance company when the engine failure was caused by other damage or stupidity. In your case, if the oil pan was damaged by a large rock in the road, and the oil leaked out over a short time, causing the engine to blowup on the highway, SOME insurance companies will cover the loss the same as you hitting the ditch and needing the front end repaired. I think a third party inspection for the cause of the oil loss may be in you best interest. If it is not negligence on your part, than file a claim with your insurance company. That is what you pay them for. The worst that can happen is they tell you NO, not covered.

 

[Bill Stockard]

I bought my 03 already blowed up and did a custom rebuild ( me and a Cummins mechanic friend ). This way I got what I wanted. I'm not a big fan of "off the shelf" rebuilds. I kept mine stock except for a cam. Shad

Yep, and you know what you have too. You don't know what the off the shelf rebuilders used for parts (Chinese sourced knock off parts?) unless it's a Cummins Reman.



Bill

 

[MChrist]

I won't be much help here, but personally, I would be trying to find the reason for losing your oil. Did a turbo seal go and suck oil out? Was pan struck? When was last time you checked oil level, and did engine use oil before this happened? If turbo seal sucked out oil, and you rebuild motor, same thing will happen.

All that being said, I've read good things about Jasper and how they rebuild motors, although I have no firsthand experience. That is if I wanted a stock rebuild. Personally, I would have a local, well known performance shop rebuild mine if I ever needed it. I would probably have Mahle (sp?) steel pistons, ARP studs, a cam and ported head with 5 angle valve job. Add twins, (you already have a Smarty and Goerend Trans) and have dependable 600/1200 power.

Based on your sig. , I'm guessing you have already thought about modifying it more... correct?

If I was already modified, and I was in your shoes, I would go all the way, since you are half way there already. If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly, not a Panda!!

 

[ColemanR]

I wont touch a Jasper product. They warrentied a transmission I put in my truck for a 100k had a failure at 40k they replaced it after a fight if I would sign off that they replaced it and no other warrenty was given I was on my own. I am not hard on transmissions I get 200k+ out of them. It was really stupid of them as I was just about to order a motor for my van with that kind of support I will go some where else. Just my 2cents on Jasper Randy

 

[Prairie Dog]

I can't offer any real help Kevin other than to say I'm sure sorry this happened to you but I do appreciate you telling us about it all. Please keep us updated as you progress.

Scotty

 

[MD500E]

Thanks for all the replies. After doing a little research I think there may be more to it than simply low oil in the pan. After adding the 4 quarts, the oil level went up to a hair over the upper mark meaning the oil level at the time was about 2 3/4 below the lower mark on the stick . Certainly low, but not sure if it was low enough to starve the pump. I have been reading about a few other members who have had a problem with loosing oil pressure shortly after starting the engine. It seems like with some of the trucks it was an electrical/sensor problem while others confirmed there was a real issue with a mechanical gauge. As far as the oil loss, there is not a drop on the ground or under carriage. It must have been burning somewhere. I have to admit I have not checked the level it in a month or two. I was probably a little to relaxed at checking it as this is my 3rd Cummins truck and I have never had to add any oil to any of them between changes. One other thing I noticed is on the underside of the oil cap there are stalactites of gooey thick oil stuck to it. I will have to post a picture later this week. I plan to pull the filter as suggested and cut it open to have a look. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.



Kevin

 

[rscurtis]

That mess on your fill cap may be coolant contamination. I wouldn't worry about cutting the filter open- that engine's coming apart regardless of what you find.

 

[JMarketos]

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but want to emphasize something...
Along with all the others, sincere condolences on the event- that's a very expensive thing to encounter. Sounds like you chose "not creating a traffic hazard" over and above "saving the engine".
What I want to emphasize is: still sounds like the source of the oil disappearing... has not been found / confirmed. That really needs to be confirmed, and I recommend don't just write it off as "must be burning it". If it burned 2+ quarts in a few miles, I'd think it definitely would have been noticed as a smoke screen out the rear view mirror. I'm concerned (as others seem to be above) about possibly having a turbo seal fail on the intake side, and the intercooler / piping is where that oil is going. If that happens to be the case, it will lead to another very unfortunate and expensive event. I'm not trying to forego any conclusions about where the oil is disappearing- just want to emphasize (imho) the need to understand where it's going.

Wish you all the best. Again sorry for your experience. That was expen$$ive.
(I don't drive my truck in winter, and this winter I will be installing a real oil pressure gauge- already have it waiting).

 

[MChrist]

... and if it (oil) blew into the intercooler, you may have a run-away situation next time it's started. Also not good.

 

[B.G. Smith]

Who changed your oil the last time? Could the third gallon have been left out??? Just a thought. bg

 

[Prairie Dog]

Have you taken off the snorkel to the turbo and looked for oil puddling?

 

[HBarlow]

I would first try to determine cause of oil loss as others have mentioned because that may determine what parts can be reused and which cannot.

I would buy a Cummins remanufactured engine with a warranty but I have zero interest in a modified Cummins HPCR engine. For modified engines you will have no warranty so buying an engine with a warranty will not be one of your concerns.

Your best bet might be a take out from a clean and low mileage but wrecked late model Ram truck because you could purchase the entire engine as a drop-in.

 

[MChrist]

Harvey, I would normally recommend a stock engine as well, however looking at his truck modifications, he has been bitten by the BOMB BUG!!! Knowing from personal experience how this normally transpires, more mods will be coming soon, so steel pistons, ARP head bolts and new cam is what I would do if in his situation. If I ever damage my engine, it's what I would do.

Yours is the more sensible option, but nobody ever said we are a sensible bunch...

 

[HBarlow]

Yeah, I understood you and most of the other posters were looking at the issue from a modified point of view. His signature identified him as someone not likely to be satisfied with a stock engine like I am.

My first Cummins, an '01, had RV 275 injectors installed when almost new and was as durable as a factory stock engine but I've always viewed the HPCR engines as less tolerant of performance mods.

 

[MChrist]

I always meant to ask you. . why did you decide to change injectors early on?

 

[MD500E]

I change my own oil so I know it was full but it has been a month or two since I last checked the oil so that could amount to over 3,000 miles to eat up 4 missing quarts. I will check the turbo seals later this week. I am thinking of sending it out to Haisley Machine to have it rebuilt with at least better cam and some head studs. Good point on the recon engines. I am sure part of the cost on a Cummins recon is the warranty which will go to waste on my modified truck. So other than a cam and studs, any other "must haves" when doing a rebuild? I saw steel pistons mentioned but am unfamiliar with their advantages. I plan to keep the truck in the 500HP range and I don't drag race or sled pull. Thanks.

 

[MChrist]

Steel pistons... MAHLE Group | MONOTHERM® pistons



Mahle also makes aluminum pistons. I don't know what would be better for your application. You are better off talking to the person who would be rebuilding your engine. I'm sure they know more than me when it comes to piston choices, I'm just mentioning it for your perusal.

 

[Grey Wolf]

MD500E if you want Monotherms better start saving they'll set you back a tad over $3,000... .