'06 Rough idle....FCA??

[JGheen]

Help me out with this one guys... ... . just got back from a 650 mile round trip over the Easter weekend and upon firing the truck up for work this morning I had a very rough idle. First I was thinking injector but it eventually had went away and the idle was normal after a couple miles of driving. This had happen only once before a while back and it was for less than minute. Kind of felt like fuel pressure or sticking injector?? I have read a few threads on a bad FCA, so could this be the culprit with my '06??

Anyway, the engine is stock aside from the PAC brake and aFe Stg. 2 and I run Power Service Diesel Kleen at every fill up. Any ideas?



Thanks, Joe

 

[steved]

If it did it one time, I would not worry about it... if it becomes an every time event, then I'd start looking at causes...

 

[LFarmer]

My 06 had a rough idle for about 20 seconds on initial start up and then would idle/run fine. After the oil level started creaping up I took it in and they replace two injectors. I too run diesel kleen and the dealer told me the injectors were corroded.

 

[CSkal]

I too run diesel kleen and the dealer told me the injectors were corroded.

When you say "corroded" I assume you (or dealer) meant that the injectors were carboned up?

 

[LFarmer]

I asked the same question. The service guy acted like he didn't know a lift pump from an injector pump. He used the term to try to sell me the injector cleaning service at $129. 95. With only 16000 miles I didn't think I needed it, and after a few questions all they would do is fill the filter canister with "cleaner" and run it. I wasn't allowed to talk to the tech. I decided to leave on a good note before they tried to blame me for "contaminated" fuel. On a side note, they replaced the cp3 at 20000 due to leaking externally.

 

[steved]

When you say "corroded" I assume you (or dealer) meant that the injectors were carboned up?

Probably meant *eroded*...

 

[JGheen]

If it did it one time, I would not worry about it... if it becomes an every time event, then I'd start looking at causes...

Well, this is the second time and what would be some of the causes??



Joe

 

[steved]

Injectors... that'd be my guess.

 

[MMeier]

Injectors... that'd be my guess.

What he said!!

 

[steved]

And again, I would NOT worry about it until it gets really bad (starts kicking back during starting, or really long starts, or doesn't start). Just keep it in mind... run some different cleaner through it and who knows, it might clear up too.



Mine did it for a really long time... when the injectors started getting really bad, it will start to buck when you start it.

 

[JAlford]

Check for water in the fuel. I am having some long crank issues with my '06, and have talked with a couple of dozen dealers. (by the way - almost half don't know a Cummins from a HEMI). I talked with one in particular who was very knowledgable about the injector issues, and he showed me several injectors out of a '07 6. 7L that were RUSTED. He said he had encountered about 10 trucks with this issue. He was the best mechanic I have seen in a long time - walked with me right out to the truck, popped the hood, and in 5 minutes had the #1 injector cross supply tube out inspecting it for rust. He said that was a sure sign if it has a problem. Luckily, no rust in mine. To top it off, no charge for anything, and he checked the DTC's and software version as well. And I didn't even buy the truck from them!

Warning though - According to him, Chrysler will not warranty injectors that are rusted! He told me that cummins actually told him that the water separator should be drained once a month!

Jeff

 

[JGheen]

Had another rough start this morning. Definately not as bad as my original post description cuz it idled fine after about 20 seconds or so. I guess I could try a Stanadyne additive or something different and see what happens but if this rough idle starts to occur every morning now then I guess it is off to the stealership.



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Ok, so it happened again on the trip home from work today. Fired it up and idle was really rough but went away after about 30 seconds.

So, in light of this I am confused. How does the ECM not pick up this misfire or other potential issue and throw a code? I mean, the darn ECM throws a code when it sees a dramatic temperature change in the battery or even the air inlet temp. I have had the battery temp code tossed on me when I got it but after reading some other posts for codes it seems the ECM is very sensitive and will throw one for just about anything. Anyone have any input on this??



Joe

 

[WardS]

I don't know the year ranges this applies but over at the Cummins Diesel Forums there is a sticky posted addressing and issue about a wire harness that rubs on part of the engine to the point it makes contact and increases

over time.

 

[cerberusiam]

I don't know the year ranges this applies but over at the Cummins Diesel Forums there is a sticky posted addressing and issue about a wire harness that rubs on part of the engine to the point it makes contact and increases over time.

Its posted here somehwer also. Ask steved about it.

How does the ECM not pick up this misfire or other potential issue and throw a code? I mean, the darn ECM throws a code when it sees a dramatic temperature change in the battery or even the air inlet temp. I have had the battery temp code tossed on me when I got it but after reading some other posts for codes it seems the ECM is very sensitive and will throw one for just about anything. Anyone have any input on this??



Joe

The ECU does not monitor combustion, nothing to look at on a CI engine. It sets the rail pressure and fires the injectors and if everything is in spec knows nothing more. If the mechanical portion of the injector is bad or the tip is messed up, no way fo the ECU to know.



The ECU would have to measure pressure and temp in each cylinder to know there is a problem.



PLEASE don't give the EPA anymore ideas. :-laf

 

[RM]

Ok, so it happened again on the trip home from work today. Fired it up and idle was really rough but went away after about 30 seconds.

So, in light of this I am confused. How does the ECM not pick up this misfire or other potential issue and throw a code? I mean, the darn ECM throws a code when it sees a dramatic temperature change in the battery or even the air inlet temp. I have had the battery temp code tossed on me when I got it but after reading some other posts for codes it seems the ECM is very sensitive and will throw one for just about anything. Anyone have any input on this??



Joe

joe my truck has done the same thing but when mine did it i drove it home from work really hard and and hasnt done it since. i also had oil sample run and found no oil dilution. have you had any flashes done to the ecm like the one for hard starting? Does your's have that problem occasionaly. Mine does but very seldom. I'm actually kind of watching mine develop its not a daily drive and i'm at 58k miles and got more time on warranty. I have two theories whats going on either the injector is carboning up and needs a good blowing out or the fuel rail is leaking down either from the relief valve or the cp3 and it starts with some air and then goes away. Mine hasnt done it again in about 1k miles so i'm hoping that running the crap out of it cleared it up. Also ran code reader on truck and fuel rail and all is correct pressures my truck had a p0191 code and i think it may have something to do with this. If ya need to use a code reader i could bring it by one night i'm over in Hasley canyon. have you checked the sensor wiring by your a/c for wear thru? hope this help Ron

 

[JGheen]

joe my truck has done the same thing but when mine did it i drove it home from work really hard and and hasnt done it since. i also had oil sample run and found no oil dilution. have you had any flashes done to the ecm like the one for hard starting? Does your's have that problem occasionaly. Mine does but very seldom. I'm actually kind of watching mine develop its not a daily drive and i'm at 58k miles and got more time on warranty. I have two theories whats going on either the injector is carboning up and needs a good blowing out or the fuel rail is leaking down either from the relief valve or the cp3 and it starts with some air and then goes away. Mine hasnt done it again in about 1k miles so i'm hoping that running the crap out of it cleared it up. Also ran code reader on truck and fuel rail and all is correct pressures my truck had a p0191 code and i think it may have something to do with this. If ya need to use a code reader i could bring it by one night i'm over in Hasley canyon. have you checked the sensor wiring by your a/c for wear thru? hope this help Ron

Thanks Ron, no need for the code reader right now, but maybe in the future pending it throws a code. I had the famous long crank and battery temp code back @ 1820 miles, dealer re-flashed and no problems since. A few long starts here and there but nothing to worry about.

Funny you say you ran the crap out of it on the way home from work one day, well, I did just that yesterday. Pretty much had it pinned all the way home and it seemed to like it as the start up this morning was like a dream, nice and smooth idle and running fine now. Gonna take it on a short road trip this Saturday, so I will hammer down even more then, especially up both sides of the Grapevine. That should clean 'er out real good.

That is an interesting theory on the internal fuel leak, very possible. What is this sensor wire by the A/C I am hearing about? Read a few other threads on that. Does anyone have any pics of this wire and what to do??



Thanks again, Joe

 

[WardS]

http://http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/38315-rough-idle-hard-start-solved.html



I'v been lurking member almost 2 years but only second post so bear with me

if this link does not work. It sounds like you can search this site also for

similiar info The above link has photos also.

 

[JGheen]

Thanks Ward but the linky no worky... ... :{ I'll try a search here.



Joe

 

[RM]

worn thru wiring

Let me see if i can make a link work https://www.turbodieselregister.com...7/193482-hah-rough-idle-cured-thanks-tdr.html