‘07 5.9 injector failure

[Seisenbath]

So back on Labor Day weekend we had engine problems, initial diagnosis was a dropped valve. Finally tore it apart today, hole in one of the exhaust valves and a destroyed piston and cylinder. General consensus is #5 injector failed, causing the sudden rise in temperature and destruction. 255K miles on the truck, shame on me no EGT gauge, no excuse. So a couple of questions, the valve seat does not look good, are the seats replaceable? The cylinder wall is scored, does the 5.9 have the replaceable liners? Should I rebuild the whole engine, meaning new rings, bearings, etc based on the mileage?

I have access to a low mileage 6.7 5000 mile engine out of an International rental truck, what’s the feasibility of incorporating it in place of my 5.9? Thanks for your help.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wow what a bummer! We’re you running stock, or with tunes? Were you pushing it hard? Do you have extra fuel filtration?
These engines do not have liners but the cylinder is repairable with a repair sleeve installed at a decent machine shop, if the damage is that bad. The head should be able to get a new seat and should be repairable as well.
An engine from other than another Ram won’t work as the block is different, especially 6.7’s.
I think your engine is rebiuldable, and that’s what I would do if it were mine.

 

[Tuesdak]

Your turbo needs a tear down and inspection as the exhaust side ate anything that came out of the cylinder. You also need to pull the intercooler and clean it and the piping out as debris goes both ways esp. with a bad exhaust valve blowing air back into the cylinder and out the intake valves when the intake valves are open.

EGT will be reading "everything's fine" while a stuck open injector melts everything down and quickly at that. 1/6 burning hot and the other 5 would be cooling the probe off. Prevention is maybe the aftermarket steel pistons they make for the 5.9 could survive a bad injector. Otherwise there really isn't a practical way to save an engine if an injector fails because it happens so fast. Look up Pre-ignition, not detonation, if you really need an idea of how fast things will melt down.

I would test the injector as I see more mechanical damage than melting. How many miles on injectors, better filtration installed? Even tested injectors can have limited miles left in them as I found with my engine rebuild.

As Wayne mentioned it's rebuildable with a sleeve. Add a set of new injectors with the best filtration you can get. You are rebuilding the engine, do I really need to point out the risk of the low bidder rebuilt injectors? The head has impact damage and should be scrapped. Yeah you can clean it up and run it but why put the money in a damaged head for new seat(s) because heads in better shape to start with are not that expensive. You are pulling the engine down to do this so there isn't any reason not to replace all the rings, oil pump, and bearings. Maybe even put in a non-egr aftermarket cam while you are there.

 

[Seisenbath]

Thanks guys. Did the Glacier Diesel spin on fuel filter at about 115k, truck now has 255k. Both filters changed at every 7500 oil change. Injectors were 135k mile Bosch extrude honed injectors bought new, no rebuilt injectors for me. No tuner, running about 65, wife was driving up hill, mentioned she thought it was a little sluggish then developed a severe miss, boom!

 

[Seisenbath]

Any suggestions on where to get a head? New or reconditioned?

 

[cerberusiam]

Injectors were 135k mile Bosch extrude honed injectors bought new, no rebuilt injectors for me.

Not sure what those are but it is a good bet they were not NEW but remans with somebodies idea of a nozzle on them. If they wer enot production run Bosch injectors with a NEW serial number no telling what they were.

Seats are replaceable and the head can be checked for cracks, first thing to have done before deciding next steps. Looks like it either dropped the valve seat or melted the piston and hot spotted the valve causing it to melt. Doesn't look like much impact damage and the heads are solid, but, check fro cracks first.

Pretty much any 6.7 long block will work in your truck. You will likely have to pull the front cover and oil pan from yours and strip the 6.7 down to just block and crank to make it work. I *think* the 5.9 and 6.7 front accessory covers are compatible but check that also. Other option is a 6.7 front accessory cover from salvage, there should be a bunch of those around the way they trash those engines.

If you go the 6.7 route then the fun starts. You have to use 5.9 injectors and you will need larger ones to feed the 6.7. Minimum would be the BBI Stage .5's but a Stage I may be better. Then you need to find a tuner to build you a 6.7 tune on a 5.9 ECM, that is a little tougher as that is not an exact science. It is pretty much start from scratch and make it work.

 

[Wayne M.]

Cerb, are you including the possible donor engine he described as a candidate for his Ram?
Also, how do you differentiate Bosch serial numbers?

 

[Tuesdak]

Shop that did my engine mentioned some issues interchanging 6.7 and 5.9's. So from that I say rumor has it that 5.9 injectors need a little 'fitment' to work in a 6.7 head or is that the other way 6.7 injectors in a 5.9 head? I understand the length is different enough they don't seal to the head.

BTW Check the pushrods from that hole for being bent.

 

[cerberusiam]

Any 6.7 block should work with the correct accessory covers. MD engines have different front covers for accessory mounts that might need changed along with the oil pan. Just depends on how the engine was provisioned for the platform and accessories. An engine in a International should work with some changing around of the front covers and swapping the engine adapter.

Most 6.7 engines will accept the 5.9 injectors, some castings did not for some odd reason. May have been the earlier ones, hard telling because the ones that had issues no one bothered to track when they were built. Something else to check before getting too far into the process. 6.7 injectors do not work well with the 5.9 injector drivers, just the way the drivers apply voltage and amperage to operate it and that impacts the tune building.

To do a 6.7 swap is rather involved if you want to do it right, not just "good enogh". Then the whole HG thing with the 6.7 is another thing to consider.

 

[Wayne M.]

When considering donor engines from other than Dodge/ Ram pickups, be aware that both 5.9’s and 6.7’s came in both front and rear accessory drive/ timing case configurations. The rear drive config will not fit a Ram. I’m not sure if the bare block or crank are the same between front/ rear drive config. Identifying the two is easy.

 

[cerberusiam]

The rear drive config will not fit a Ram. I’m not sure if the bare block or crank are the same between front/ rear drive config. Identifying the two is easy.

That is everything EXCEPT the Dodge application, Dodge is the only one that used a front accessory cover. However, if one has a donor engine, even a 5.9, there is good chance the front cover will transfer to the 6.7. The front and rear accessory covers are all bolt on so they do come off.

One would need to source a damper, cam, and maybe cam gear, that is something that would only be driven out in the process.

Comes down to cost and time, how long and how much will it take to get truck running if it is critical.

 

[Seisenbath]

Update: I opted to rebuild the engine. Sent it to a machine shop, overbored #5, sleeved it and bored all cylinders to match. New pistons, rings, all gaskets. New valve seats and valves on #5, surfaced head and I put it all back together as at that point I couldn’t find someone to rebuild it. New crossover tubes, new/rebuilt injectors from DDP. Lots of work, reinstalled in the truck but won’t fire. Scanned for codes, FCA & high pressure rail sensor showed up so I reluctantly replaced them, no codes but still won’t start. I have another ‘07 5.9, put the no start computer on running truck, fired right up so I’m pretty sure the computer is ok. Does anyone know the size of the CP3 return banjo bolt? I’m going to check the injector return flow to see if maybe one of the crossover tubes didn’t seat correctly.

 

[Wayne M.]

Everything is dry. It may take a while to build rail pressure. How long have you cranked it?

 

[Ozymandias]

CKP and CPS are also needed for a start, might some cable plug is forgotten?

 

[Wayne M.]

CKP and CPS are also needed for a start, might some cable plug is forgotten?

I think that would throw a sync code. Also, if no crank signal, the MIL will stay lit on cranking. That’s one thing the OP can check.

 

[Seisenbath]

I have cranked between 15-20 minutes total since rebuild with no luck. All sensors are plugged in but Wayne you may have hit the jackpot. I noticed tonight that the MIL light did stay on while cranking. Looking at the manual now to see testing procedure. I also ordered a scan tool today that can read “live” parameters. I would think that would set a code but maybe not.

 

[Wayne M.]

You’re on a scent!

 

[Seisenbath]

Got a new code scanner, fuel rail pressure 20 psi! Where do I start? Has new FCA & HP rail sensor.

 

[Wayne M.]

If you’re positive that you have low pressure fuel pumping up past the filter, you’re probably looking at a CP3, if your injectors are tight.

 

[cerberusiam]

Injectors. Rebuilt or reman on a CR injector is always the first suspect but you need to verify some other things.

Pull the banjo bolt at the CP-3 inlet and verify you have fuel that far. Make sure when you key on the LP pushes enough fuel to make a mess, If that is good try some starting fluid and see if it will spin it up enough to start and run.