08 F-450 Pickup/D-4500 CC...Thoughts?

[JJuday]

Thank you Russknh, that is what I have been trying to say. Don't get too wraped up in the numbers, because they are just that..... Numbers!!! Just because a truck is rated at 33K GCWR dosen't mean you should pull at that max GCWR! As far as the bed goes, a custom one would be far better than a regular p. u. bed. That, however is just my opinion.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm going to take one more shot at explaining my rationale regarding a pickup bed. All my truck is used for is to tow a 5th wheel RV. The pickup bed is purely cosmetic insofar as my application is concerned. It's much more economical and practical for Dodge to supply a pickup bed for the 4500 off the lot than for me to have to buy the truck and then go to (an extreme example) B&W and have an Elite-series towing bed installed that's going to cost another $8K and, because of its weight, chew into the GVWR and GCWR ratings of the truck. The pickup bed also allows the truck to be parked in many deed-restricted communities (such as mine) and keeps the truck off the scales in many states.



If that doesn't work for your application, that's fine - you can buy a bare bones C&C and set it up any way you like. For many (most?) RV and "horsey" trailer pullers in my situation, however, the 4500 with a pickup bed would be the preferred solution for the reasons cited above.



Rusty

 

[Wiredawg]

This did turn into a lively thread afterall. I agree w/ Rusty on the p/u bed part. To each their own on what works and what don't. I don't know how far back Dodge has been doing it, but i've seen on the last couple of years a bed omit option (only $400 off the sticker) for those who didn't want it.



Main point ot starting the thread: It would be good if Dodge offered more options like Ford. , especially for those of us RV towing. Also, it would be good if we could get a non-derated (as compared to the higher output Cummins in the pickups). It's a litle tough going from my 02 3500 w/ 400 hp to ground back to a ride that's delivering somewhere around 270 to the ground. I test drove a 3500 QC CC w/ the 6. 7 and Aisin transmission. Good truck. Even empty, I mashed to the floor and wasn't up to speed to get on the interstate. We'll see if our aftermarket buds can create power enhancments that'll work w/ all the emision crap.



Strictly from a mechanical perspective, Dodge beats Ford hands down.



Down here in Texas, you really don't see many F-450/550 period (with or w/out beds). You do see a lot of overloaded 3500s (me included) and F-350s w/ p/u beds.



I am doing some research to see if there is a low profile utility body offered that is equal to or lower than a stock bed would be. If I find something that will keep my GCVW below 26K lbs, I might consider a 4500. That would pretty much mean keeping GW of the truck below 9Klbs. My current 3500 weighs 9,600 lbs fully fueled and ready to tow.



We'll see what happens. In the mean time, we can agree Dodge/Cummins is the best overall truck and agree to disagree on the configuaration and features.



Keep on smoking 'em, Wiredawg

 

[NIsaacs]

I think there would be a large market for a pickup bed option for the 4500/5500 for the towing crowd like Rusty mentioned. We haven't seen much of this yet because it hasn't been offered yet, for this sized truck.



I also think one of the main reasons Dodge has resisted this Cab Chassis market for so long is the potential to overload with a special bed/body. Take even the 5500 for an example. With the wrecker rollback body for instance on the red truck that was shown at the auto show. I would guess the empty weight at about 12,000 lbs, then throw on that "broke down F-450". Now you are talking about a rear axle load of about 16,000 lbs. Eight thousand pounds empty and an eight thousand pound F-450. On a hauled load as long as the F-450 all the weight will be carried on the rear axle. Now install that body on a 3500/4500... ... .....





"NICK"

 

[RustyJC]

Maybe its just because I live in Florida (it is a big horse state though), but I don't see very many (darn few, in fact) 450s or 550s with pickup beds.

Perhaps because Ford didn't offer them until now?? The few factory-looking F-450 and F-550 pickup beds you did see were probably from Fontaine.



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

I'm going to take one more shot at explaining my rationale regarding a pickup bed. All my truck is used for is to tow a 5th wheel RV. The pickup bed is purely cosmetic insofar as my application is concerned. It's much more economical and practical for Dodge to supply a pickup bed for the 4500 off the lot than for me to have to buy the truck and then go to (an extreme example) B&W and have an Elite-series towing bed installed that's going to cost another $8K and, because of its weight, chew into the GVWR and GCWR ratings of the truck. The pickup bed also allows the truck to be parked in many deed-restricted communities (such as mine) and keeps the truck off the scales in many states.



If that doesn't work for your application, that's fine - you can buy a bare bones C&C and set it up any way you like. For many (most?) RV and "horsey" trailer pullers in my situation, however, the 4500 with a pickup bed would be the preferred solution for the reasons cited above.



Rusty

Good argument, but I too am glad that we can finaly get the C&C in Dodge. My last boss bought a D/A service truck because they had a C&C and told me he was not getting the Dodge because he had to remove the bed and I was out of luck. I don't understand the reason your upset over the C&C, if all you do is tow 5ver with it. Seems like you would order the 3500 with the greater HP and torque ratings that would benefit you better to tow. I'm stuck with the lower HP ratings on my C&C that I have on order with the B&W Elite series bed and with 12K GVWR should be no problem even when I pull my 5ver. If you remember the problem with the hydroformed frame and the service bed issue or the camper disclaimer, it does not effect you when pulling 5ver, if you pull over the GCWR of the 3500 only with the 5ver than you will need the 4500 with out bed any way due to the height of the bed on the 4500. Even though the 4500 specs are not out yet the height will probably be higher which is a concern of mine with the 3500 C&C.

 

[RustyJC]

Good argument, but I too am glad that we can finaly get the C&C in Dodge. My last boss bought a D/A service truck because they had a C&C and told me he was not getting the Dodge because he had to remove the bed and I was out of luck. I don't understand the reason your upset over the C&C, if all you do is tow 5ver with it.

Guys, you're missing the point. The F-450 is available with or without the pickup bed. The pickup bed is an option. If Dodge were to offer the 4500 C&C with a pickup bed, it wouldn't affect you one bit - just don't order it. For those of us that want it, however, why not offer it? It's no skin off of your noses.

Seems like you would order the 3500 with the greater HP and torque ratings that would benefit you better to tow.

The only 1-ton truck that could pull my 5th wheel within its ratings is the F-350 crew cab dually with the TowBoss option (26K GCWR; 13. 5K GVWR). The Dodge 3500, especially the MegaCab with its wimpy GCWR and GVWR ratings, can't cut it.



And my 5th wheel is light for a high-end rig - 16K GVWR. Some of the Newmars, Tetons, etc. are 20K and higher GVWR.



Rusty

 

[Wiredawg]

Rusty:



Back in 02, a Ford dealer here in San Antonio priced an F450 loaded out for $38k and offered a dually bed installed w/ a filler panel for an additional $1,500. Appearently, this was offer at a lot of delaerships because a frind of mine had an F-450 w/ p/u bed on his 02.



The Dodge dealer in a nearby small town told me they have fabricators who can do nearly anything and can make a Dodge dually take-off bed fit. I want to see one done first.



I told the Dodge dealer to give me a shout when they get a 4500 QC CC 4X4 dually w/ the Aisen in. I imagine the 4. 33 rearend is going to put the cummins in the 2300 RPM range we now have w/ our 02s w/ 4. 10s. It would be nice if the 2nd overdrive would put the engine at 2000 RPMS for empty running, like w/ the 4. 10 setup on the CC 3500.



I'm like you... my Travel Supreme is 17K lbs... even w/ the 4500, i need to manage weight w/ aftermarket goodies to stay legal. The CC 3500 would still

leave me 3Klbs over.



If anyone gets there hands on a 4500, pls post impressions on the TDR. I'm not committed enough yet to order one w/out driving it first.



Wiredawg

 

[RustyJC]

Back in 02, a Ford deeler here in San Antonio priced an F450 loaded out for $38k and offered a dually bed installed w/ a filler panel for an additional $1,500. Appearently, this was offer at a lot of delaerships because a frind of mine had an F-450 w/ p/u bed on his 02.

Yep, you're right. I wasn't counting the stock F-350 beds with the filler panel "kluge" - there certainly are some of those running around.



Rusty

 

[6naline01]

When I looked into the Elite set up the way I wanted the price was way too high that's why I opted to build my own.

 

[EMD-Run8]

Rusty, I've seen pickup beds on F450s and 550s for several years. Whether offered by Ford or not they are still awfully light for the kind of service any truck of that capacity is capable of. I'd imagine you could fit up a bed on a Chassis Cab 4500/5500 fairly easy if that's what you want. If you just want the look of a stock bed, great but there a BUNCH of aftermarket beds out there that look very nice with much better practical function and capability for serious haul work IMHO.

 

[RustyJC]

I'd imagine you could fit up a bed on a Chassis Cab 4500/5500 fairly easy if that's what you want.

An 8' 3500 bed doesn't work because of the cab-to-axle dimension. That's why the F-450 had to have a filler piece to use an F-350 bed or use the custom Fontaine "stock looking" bed until Ford decided to offer a factory bed on the 2008s.



I'll say it again - the pickup bed is purely cosmetic. All I use my truck for is to tow a 5th wheel, so I really don't care if the bed is made out of recycled beer cans. The only trucks that can be parked in my deed-restricted community are pickups, so flatbeds and even towing beds are out of the question for me. The F-450 pickup addresses a market need - I'm disappointed that Dodge chose not to compete with the new 4500s and 5500s.



Rusty

 

[PDM]

I'm curious why folks would want a pickup bed on a 4500 truck?

I see at least one possible disadvantage:

With the 19. 5 tires, ride height is even taller, and bed rail to 5th wheel trailer clearance possibly becomes more of an issue, which is why Fontaine has such low sides on their "pickup" bed.



Why not install a nice flatbed or "Western Hauler" style tow body with a recess "well" for the hitch, and have the advantage of clearance/access?



I have a 97 Chassis/flatbed, and also enjoy the option of forklifting the occasional large load easily onto the bed. I consider it more flexible than my regular pickup.



Anyway, just curious.

 

[RVTRKN]

Hey RustyJC, I just picked up the latest Diesel World mag and wouldn't you know it, I saw an article on the C&C with a manufactured bed for it. It was designed for Bully Dog and alltough you wouldn't like the truck in the pink trim it is designed for C&C. It is the Ram on the cover and is supposed to appeal to the girly girls. Maybe you can find out who built it for Bully Dog and buy that 4500/5500 you want. The numbers you were talking about earlier don't make sense to me, I thought the 3500 C&C has a 23k GCWR with the CTD.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm curious why folks would want a pickup bed on a 4500 truck?

I believe I've said this several times before, but here goes:



1. A pickup bed satisfies parking restrictions in most deed-restricted communities.



2. Many (most?) states do not require pickups to stop at weigh stations.



3. The pickup bed is lighter than a hauling/towing bed.



4. The factory-supplied pickup bed is much less expensive than a commercially-purchased hauling/towing bed.



5. The strength of a pickup bed (or lack thereof) is irrelevant for a 5th wheel or gooseneck towing application as no load is applied to the bed.



6. Bedrail clearance generally isn't an insurmountable issue as most of the F-450s used for RV towing are 2WD.



7. Some insurance companies apply different rates (or won't provide coverage) for non-pickup trucks, especially at the 3500 or above level.



Is this enough?



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

The numbers you were talking about earlier don't make sense to me, I thought the 3500 C&C has a 23k GCWR with the CTD.

23K GCWR won't cut it with a 16K or heavier 5th wheel if one wants to pull within ratings, and there are a lot of 5th wheels (including toyhaulers) that are 16K and over. That's why Ford sold so many F-350 TowBoss duallies to RVers - 26K GCWR and 13. 5K GVWR.



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

23K GCWR won't cut it with a 16K or heavier 5th wheel if one wants to pull within ratings, and there are a lot of 5th wheels (including toyhaulers) that are 16K and over. That's why Ford sold so many F-350 TowBoss duallies to RVers - 26K GCWR and 13. 5K GVWR.



Rusty

With base curb weight at around 7K and your 16K is 23K

 

[RustyJC]

Base curb weight is irrelevant. The actual curb weight on my truck with driver and passenger is 7,680 lbs (2002 3500 DRW QC LB 2WD)... do you think a 4500 would be lighter?



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

No, but the GCWR will be higher than 23K, I believe it will be 26K at least.

 

[RustyJC]

The numbers you were talking about earlier don't make sense to me, I thought the 3500 C&C has a 23k GCWR with the CTD.

Now I'm confused. You were quoting 23K from the above, right?? I can get 23K GCWR with a 3500 DRW pickup. We're talking about the 4500, which isn't available as a pickup, so I can't take advantage of its 26K GCWR.



Rusty