08 F-450 Pickup/D-4500 CC...Thoughts?

[RVTRKN]

Hey RustyJC, I just picked up the latest Diesel World mag and wouldn't you know it, I saw an article on the C&C with a manufactured bed for it. It was designed for Bully Dog and alltough you wouldn't like the truck in the pink trim it is designed for C&C. It is the Ram on the cover and is supposed to appeal to the girly girls. Maybe you can find out who built it for Bully Dog and buy that 4500/5500 you want. The numbers you were talking about earlier don't make sense to me, I thought the 3500 C&C has a 23k GCWR with the CTD.

Rusty look at the quote above and maybe your confusion will clear up, Buy the 4500/5500 and install the bed. I bet the 5500 will be greater than 26K but you will need a commercial license for it.

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty look at the quote above and maybe your confusion will clear up, Buy the 4500/5500 and install the bed. I bet the 5500 will be greater than 26K but you will need a commercial license for it.

Why should I have to build my own (have you priced a Fontaine bed) when I can go to Ford and buy an F-450 pickup off the lot? My whole point is that Ford has addressed a significant market segment by the simple addition of a factory pickup bed to the F-450. Many of us RVers have been waiting for a truck like this, and I'm disappointed that Dodge has chosen not to compete with a similar offering.



No, I wouldn't need a commercial license. In Texas, a truck GCWR >26,001 and trailer GVWR >10,000 used in non-commercial applications (like RVing) requires a non-CDL Class A driver's license.



Rusty

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

The 4500 & 5500 are both rated at a 26k GCVWR. In my interview they stated all the chassis cab trucks are rated at 26k but looking back at the intro of the 3500 C&C I see that it was listed at 23k at that time. I don't know if that's changed since. It was very obvious in my interviews and the from the intro that there was little consideration made for the personal RV towing market. The focus for these trucks was the commercial service body market only.

 

[RVTRKN]

Rusty, it seems we have gone full circle on this thread and I'll try not to bug you any more, but Cummins is twice the engine than the Powerstroke and now you can get the 4500/5500 in D/C and don't want it now. The extra costs for the bed will be cheaper than the constant trips to the Ford dealer even if it's warranty because of down time. The Powerstroke has a bad rep now (for good reason) and would wait before you buy the 6. 4 and I'll bet the Ford will cost more than the Ram anyway. I do believe that Dodge made a mistake on this option or lack of option, but at least we can buy a 4500/5500 now in a D/C

 

[RustyJC]

It was very obvious in my interviews and the from the intro that there was little consideration made for the personal RV towing market.

... . which is the point I've been trying to make for the last umpteen pages, and the reason for my disappointment. To me, it indicates that DC must not understand the towing applications that many 2500 and 3500 trucks are sold into.



I think DC will be shocked at how many incremental F-450 sales Ford picks up (no pun intended) with their offering, especially if the 6. 4L proves to be more durable than the 6. 0L.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty, it seems we have gone full circle on this thread and I'll try not to bug you any more, but Cummins is twice the engine than the Powerstroke and now you can get the 4500/5500 in D/C and don't want it now. The extra costs for the bed will be cheaper than the constant trips to the Ford dealer even if it's warranty because of down time. The Powerstroke has a bad rep now (for good reason) and would wait before you buy the 6. 4 and I'll bet the Ford will cost more than the Ram anyway. I do believe that Dodge made a mistake on this option or lack of option, but at least we can buy a 4500/5500 now in a D/C

Save me the "mighty Cummins" speech, OK? I haven't bought an F-450 pickup and I doubt that I will, but many RVers who don't share our blind devotion to the Cummins will!



Rusty

 

[RVTRKN]

Save me the "mighty Cummins" speech, OK? I haven't bought an F-450 pickup and I doubt that I will, but many RVers who don't share our blind devotion to the Cummins will!



Rusty

The original platform of the Cummins "B" is twice the engine and was designed for more than twice the GCVWR of the Powerstroke and is not a "mighty Cummins" speech. The only reason for the low GCWR is the truck itself which D/C missed the boat on a long time ago. Now that D/C finally boarded the boat, they will undoughtably follow suite with your wishes in the near future. If you look at it as a positive start in this class of truck the better.



I will enjoy my 3500C&C with Elite bed, which by the way you recommended to us last Nov or around that time, and pull my small 5ver with confidence. B&W Elite bed was the perfect answer to my business and personal needs and I would not have known about, if it were not for you. BTW the bed is costing me 9. 5K not 8K and will be happy with it.



Do you really think you can convert Ford fans by having a bed installed on the C&C, You will only have new D/C fans.



Well I've got to go, I can hear the National Anthem on TV in Daytona. Go Kasey #9.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm glad the Elite towing bed is working out for you. As I said when I recommended it, IF I were going with a towing bed, that's the one I would want.



I don't really need the Cummins speech because I'm a Cummins owner and have been (and a member of this forum as well) long enough to have seen all the Cummins flag-waving proclaiming the superiority of our engine manufacturer of choice over any Brand X that comes along. I can recite the Cummins anthem chapter and verse.



However, that doesn't change the fact that Dodge missed this marketing boat. Instead of acknowledging this, I've been told by Dodge/Cummins owners and even Dodge salesmen that I don't really need a 4500 pickup. What I (and other RVers) want and need is a matter of personal choice, and we vote with our wallets. You voted to go with the 4500 and Elite bed, and that's fine - that's your choice. I don't believe that automatically means that it's the best choice for everyone, just as the F-450 pickup or a competitive 4500 pickup (if one were available) would not be the best choice for everyone.



The problem is, if I want to stay with a Dodge/Cummins, I've been denied that choice, unlike the F-450 purchasers.



Rusty

 

[Wiredawg]

All:



I am looking at this the same way Rusty is and that is why I started this thread to begin with:



- I want the Dodge/Cummins version of the F-450 dually pick-up:

-- to legally tow my 17Klb 5th wheel w/ out exceeding GCVWR

-- Pick up box

-- integrated brake controller

-- Integrated rocker switches for any accessories

-- Full 350 HP/650 tq, not derated 305 hp/605 tq

-- Drive off the lot w/ a factory, complete truck (all above)

-- (OK, I'll settle for the p/u bed, but the other stuff would be good to)



- I don't want/need:

-- to use it as a work truck... i have 18' flat bed and 20' enclosed car hauler

that I use when I haul heavy loads

-- Flat bed

-- prefer not to have rv hauler bed.

-- something that looks like at came off the farm



I understand the point many of you are talking about finishing out the truck as strong as it can be, but I don't haul crates and bulky cargo on my truck... I tow an RV, pull loads of gravel on my flatbed trailer and use it as a daily driver.



I everyone get the 4500/5500 exactly the way they want it, 'cause when i throw down $40K for truck, that's the way mine is gonna be.



I rest my case.



Wiredawg

 

[tron1959]

I see very few Ford 450/550's in personal use. Most are commercial (without pickup beds). It is obvious that Dodge is wanting to tap this market. I would think they researched to find the greatest potential buyer pool and it is the commercial market. I think CDL requirements are nearly the same in all states and the reason for the 26,000 gvwr is so the driver (in commercial use) is not required to possess a class A CDL . It is also obvious that for the most part the commercial market will not want a pickup bed.



It may prove in time that changes will be made to woo non-commercial users but I think they are smart to build a vehicle that will attract the largest pool of pontential buyers/users.

 

[RVTRKN]

I'm glad the Elite towing bed is working out for you. As I said when I recommended it, IF I were going with a towing bed, that's the one I would want.



I don't really need the Cummins speech because I'm a Cummins owner and have been (and a member of this forum as well) long enough to have seen all the Cummins flag-waving proclaiming the superiority of our engine manufacturer of choice over any Brand X that comes along. I can recite the Cummins anthem chapter and verse.



However, that doesn't change the fact that Dodge missed this marketing boat. Instead of acknowledging this, I've been told by Dodge/Cummins owners and even Dodge salesmen that I don't really need a 4500 pickup. What I (and other RVers) want and need is a matter of personal choice, and we vote with our wallets. You voted to go with the 4500 and Elite bed, and that's fine - that's your choice. I don't believe that automatically means that it's the best choice for everyone, just as the F-450 pickup or a competitive 4500 pickup (if one were available) would not be the best choice for everyone.



The problem is, if I want to stay with a Dodge/Cummins, I've been denied that choice, unlike the F-450 purchasers.



Rusty

D/C must start somewhere on this market segment, and to keep focuss on the prize of capturing the MD class or at least become a serious player anyway, some sacrifice will be required. As stated in last posts it wont be that far away, anyway they will probably have your bed available by the time your ready to purchase the 4500/5500 when they see the market for it.

 

[Jeff Knight]

Ford dealer in Mechanicsburg PA has a King Ranch F450. $62000. 00 is the sticker price.

 

[HBarlow]

Random thoughts:



I'm also a little disappointed with the new 4500/5500 offerings as many of you have stated above but am trying to keep my thoughts in perspective and hope Dodge will offer a pickup bed and higher GCWR later.



Since the existing pickup bed was designed for attachment to a truck frame that is anything but flat, fitting it to the new flat frame cab and chassis models would be expensive and would require some time. Maybe DC will assign some department to engineer a new set of support brackets under the existing pickup bed to fit it to the flat frame c and c. I don't know, it may be that the designs are incompatible and getting the installed bed height correct to match existing body lines may not be possible.



There may be other issues at stake since Dodge is a sister of Sterling and Freightliner. DC may not want Dodge cab and chassis trucks to enter the truck market between 26,000 and 33,000 pounds where it can compete with Freightliner Business class and Sterling trucks.



Even if Dodge doesn't rate the 5500 cab and chassis truck above 26,000# the Cummins 6. 7 engine, Aisin six speed, and 4. 88 gears would easily allow towing combined weights up to the 33,000 # range. After all, hot shotters and farmers, several of whom are members of the TDR, are currently doing that with 3500 pickups.



Let's maintain our optimism and watch and see. Maybe Dodge will please all of us in a year or so.



Harvey

 

[JRMora]

Maybe DC will assign some department to engineer a new set of support brackets under the existing pickup bed to fit it to the flat frame c and c. I don't know, it may be that the designs are incompatible and getting the installed bed height correct to match existing body lines may not be possible. Harvey

You're right. The main issue is the C/A (Cab to Axle) dimension. All C&C trucks are designed to industry standard C/A dimensions. This is so upfitter's don't have to custom design service bodies to different dimensions for every vehicle.



Before Ford came out with the F-450 pickup this year, there were F-450's with "pickup" beds on them. In order to do this, the conversion companies actually had to lengthen the pickup bed by a few inches so that there wasn't a big gap between the cab and the box. In addition, as you mentioned above, they had to design new brackets.



Has anyone looked under a new '08 F-450 to see if they are using the straight framed F-450 chassis or are they using a version of the existing curved frame F-350? If they are using a straight frame, I have to guess that it's a custom (not one of the existing C&C frames). I thought I read somewhere that the F-450 had a 172" wheelbase so I'm guessing it's an F-350 frame.



Anybody?



Juan

 

[06Dually]

I will say this about the F-450 Ford pickup... . they are speed governed at 81 mph, and if you get an auto with 4. 88 gears or a manual with any gears they are derated at 325hp and 600tq.

 

[JoelMartin]

Fellow Rammers:



Just came from the auto show in Houston and checked out 08 F-350 and looked at brochure on F450... I wish Dodge would at least match Ford in features and equipment:



F-450:

GCVWR 33Klbs

GVWR 14. 5Klbs

Comes w/dually p/u bed

650 hp/650 ft lbs tq

Integrated trailer brake controller

Cargo bed extender folds into side of bed

Step and hand hold folds out of tailgate



There is no space under the hood of the Ford... all the filters are uptop.



Dodge 4500:

Don't know specifics on GCVWR or GVWR

305 hp/605 ft lbs tq

CC: Deler told me I could get an outfitter try to mod making a pu bed fit

Aisen 6speed ++

integrated exhaust brake



I don't know about y'all, but i don't want a flat bed or hauler body... just a regular p/u bed. I made up my mind I'm keeping my 3500 until Dodge comes thru w/ a 4500 w/ a p/u bed or by 2010 if the Ford 6. 4 has proven itself.



We'll wait and see. What are your thoughts?



Wiredawg

I heard ford horsepower is 350 and torque is 650.

Dodge horsepower is derated to 305 and torque is still 610. My friend pulls minibarns and his 05 automatic can outpull his 07 6. 7 manual. Fuel milage is terrible on the 6. 7 to. :{