Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 100,000 Cummins Dealer Service

[GaryMoore]

Hello to all,

Just trying to get a reference on what is expensive and what is not. I was advised (by my dodge dealer) to use a Cummins Service Center to do the 100,000 mile inspection and 24 valve adjust on my Ram.

I am trying to get an idea of what things should cost. I was always told that the Cummins Service Centers were more reasonable on parts and such.

This is the info from the ticket:



100,000 mile inspection. Set Valves. Change oil and filter. Grease Chassis. Clean Engine.

Brought in and recorded the no's. Checked the anti freeze. Set the valves. Check the Air Filter - OK. Changed the fuel filter. Clean down the engine. Check over in general. Run for operation after repair. Wiped down, final inspected and closed out.



Charges unit total



(1) LF 3959 Pac, LF 9. 39 9. 39

(1) FS 19579 Pac, FS 15. 05 15. 05

(16) 3377361 Prem. Blue Valvol. 15W40 1. 56 24. 96

(1) Degreaser Solvent 1/2 Gal 10. 32 10. 32



Parts total 59. 72

Labor 346. 50

misc 3. 14

Shop supplies 1. 19

Environmental 1. 95

Tax 3. 77

---------------------------------------

$413. 13





After looking at the engine, the statement about "clean down engine" was a stretch, but all of the other work seems to have been done correctly. The 16 quarts of oil? I dont know, surely they didn't all go in the engine, but how the heck do you tell, I can never get a clean line on the dipstick.

Just looking for Member comments... thanks... gary

 

[rholcom2]

Just at first glance it seems interesting to me that they used 16 quarts of oil and only charged you $1. 95 environmental.



As for a comment, I dont really know. I am my own warranty station. Fixin' on rolling 160K here in a week or so. And the ole' Cummins keeps on ticking. Course it has been ticking a little faster this past week than before, Indiana raised the speed limits on rural interstates to 70 mph. We finally jumped on the bandwagen with every other state.

 

[HeavyHauler]

What gets me is the labor and $10 that they charged you for 1/2 gallon of degreaser - since when did that stuff get so expensive? I wonder what they charged you per hour on labor? $350 seems really high to me for what they were supposed to do, or maybe I'm not up with the current prices.



They charged you average prices for the filters and did you pretty good on the oil. I would have guessed over $2. 00/quart from a dealer. But 16 quarts? Geesh! I don't know where they put all of it, but I'd suggest draining some if they got in all in your crankcase. That's ridiculous, surely they didn't do that - your crank is churning through a bunch of Valvoline right now if that's the case.



Inquire on that and let us know - they should have used 11 and no more than 12.

 

[GaryMoore]

Svc Mgr Say always 16

I talked to the service manager at this Cummins Service Center and he confirmed that they always put 16 quarts of oil in the 5. 9 24v. He then sent me to the parts guy who I questioned about the size of the pan and he says there is a high and a low capacity pan, the large holds 10 quarts, the small holds 8, and that doesn't count the oil in the galleries and the filter.

I would tell you what the dipstick reads, but no matter how many times I take it out and wipe it off, I never get a clear reading. This was true before and after the oil change. Maybe because of the long tube, riveted/extended dipstick? I dunno.



Oh and 89. 50 an hour labor. I know for sure it was in the bay at least 3 1/2 hours. I was outside at the picnic table reading from 7:30 Am till after 11:00 AM.



So what do ya think?... . gary

 

[GaryMoore]

Rholcom 2

Rholcom 2



I am a mechanic, but didn't want to attempt the 24v valve adjustment right out of the box with my first diesel. Maybe never will. I really did it to get a starting point as I didn't get much history with the truck, heck the VA may have been done already for what I know.

Also, where are you in Indiana? I am in New Castle, just 45 min east of Indy.

When I brought the truck home from OK City, I thought we had 70 m per. But did not see it anywhere on I 70 from Terra Haute to Indianapolis.

Gary

 

[HeavyHauler]

I don't know where they got their information on oil capacity, but they're dead wrong. Maybe this is for an industrial or marine application or something. I'd suggest doing my own oil changes from now on or taking it to a shop that knows what they're dealing with.



Open up your owner's manual to the Fluid Capacities section - let us know what you find for engine oil capacity.



Oh yeah, could it be that you're not getting a clean oil reading because your crankcase is overfilled by 5 quarts? I would imagine that the oil is running up clear to the handle with that much in it.

 

[trqmnstr]

Yeah, that's way too much oil. It looks as though all they really did was change the oil, fuel filter, and adjust the valves. I think you could have taken it somewhere else for much cheaper. Try the local diesel service shop next time. See what they can do for you. Personally, the only thing I would have taken mine in for on your list was the valves. Anybody can do the rest themselves and save over $250. Sorry, just my opinion.

 

[Will24]

The labor rate is about normal for a cummins shop, though the labor time seems pretty drug out... The only 16qt explanation I can think of is, maybe they only do the gallon jugs of oil in that particular shop and the tech just figured he was safer doing 4 gallons, who knows.



On the cleaning/degreasing thing, that's strange that they charged you for it, I know everything that comes out of our shop, if needed, is cleaned/degreased as part of work performed (takes about 10 minutes to do a pretty nice job, no big deal), as would checking the coolant. Anything that comes in our shop, first thing we are supposed to do is check SCAs, and adjust as necessary, then record #s on the work order. It's just a 5 minute part of a service. The price, though high, I guess isn't really out of line, but 2 - 2 1/2 hours of labor should have been enough to cover the work done, that''s the only thing I would really question.



Even my slow, still-learning fat butt can run valves on an ISB in about 30-45 minutes, fuel filter is about a 5 minute job and figure 20 minutes on an oil change and another 15 minutes for a chassis lube, then 10 minutes of steam cleaning.

 

[bmoeller]

16qts? IIRC, the 12 and 24v engines take 12. Book for mine says 12, but 11 will do it, unless I change the TP roll (Frantz), at the same time.



If you weren't comfortable doing the valves, I would've had it done by shop too. Would've done the rest myself, though. These engines (parent bore block, no liners) don't need SCAs in the coolant. Won't hurt anything though.



$89. 50/hr? OUCH. That is worse than Altorfer (Cat). Too bad you couldn't wait, 'til you got moved out this way. I could've done it for ya, a lot cheaper. Running valves isn't that bad to do. Haven't done a 24v ISB, but probably isn't much, if any, different than setting the valves on a BC 855 Cummins.



I am my own warranty station. Oh, wait a minute, I've never had a warranty. :-laf Well, if I had one... ... , I'd still do my own work.

 

[GaryMoore]

I am an industrial mechanic with a 1500 lb toolbox in my garage. I bought the truck less than 3 weeks ago, spent the last two weeks tieing up loose ends here and I just didn't have the time to do it myself. My problem is that I am moving to Chicago Sunday, then commuting between Chicago and Detroit for twenty weeks for job training then home to Indiana on weekends. I know I will be driving thousands of miles in the next 6 weeks and needed the service done. I called 5 Cummins shops before one said they could do the 5. 9. One of these shops knew so little, I was reading the fleetgaurd filter numbers to them.

Sometimes you just have to do what you gotta do and bite the bullet if it doesn't work out. I will drain the oil tomorrow... . gary

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Gary, to check your oil accurately:



Park on level spot for the night and pull the dipstick out 2-3 inches. In the AM poke it back in then pull it out for a reading. You should get a fairly clean reading then.



If indeed they overfilled it 4 quarts it would not be good to drive it that way. The oil will be whipped up and aerated by the crank which is hard on bearings.

 

[bmoeller]

Sometimes you just have to do what you gotta do and bite the bullet if it doesn't work out.

I've farmed a few things before. Mostly front-end alignments, Goerends put the trany in ( Done it before, but didn't have the time, or a lift. Not doing one again without a lift. ), and some head work on the 6. 9L, while they were off for the head gaskets.



No problems though.

 

[GaryMoore]

Hey guys,



Well it all ended up being BS. I took the time, checked the dipstick about 5 times. I am apparently dragging oil up the tube when I pull the dip stick, which is touching the stick as it comes out and making it hard to read.

After wiping it for the fifth time I could tell that It is sitting right on the full line.

If I had left the dipstick out overnight as Vaughn had suggested that would have worked too.

I told the dealer when I called that I couldn't care less about him charging me for 16 when it is twelve (I really do and will not be going back) but he stuck to his guns and said 16.

It was all just a lie to cover an overcharge I guess.

Thanks... . gary moore

 

[RJPotts]

That's ridiculous. I'd raise hell if I were you.

At Yancey Cat where we charge $90/hr labor, we make for sure the job is done right and ASAP. I changed ALL the oil/fluids and ALL the filters (fuel included) on a Cat C15 in one bad*ss Peterbuilt and adjusted the valves and some other little stuff in a little less than 3 hours. Your truck shouldn't have taken that long.

-R. J.

 

[Mingoglia]

16qts sounds about right for commerical isb applications. I'm sure he has a cheat sheet when he writes the ticket that tells him how much to charge for oil. I doubt the wrench turner keeps track of how much oil he puts in. The oil pan in our trucks is NOT the same as other isb's... . this was gone over in the past in threads when some people have gone to the local Cummins center as you did and the tech stripped out the oil plug because the Cummins oil pan has a much higher ft/lbs rating for the drainplug.



Mike

 

[bmoeller]

I told the dealer when I called that I couldn't care less about him charging me for 16 when it is twelve (I really do and will not be going back) but he stuck to his guns and said 16.

Did you show him the owners manual?

 

[rbattelle]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think you have to be almost as careful with Cummins service centers as you do with Dodge dealership service centers. They just don't seem to know anything about the engines that go in the Dodge.



I took mine to them and asked for a coolant flush to Fleetguard Ethylene Glycol. That's what the work order stated. 3 hours later they had installed Propylene Glycol instead. I got the "deer in headlights" look when I pointed it out and they told me "thats what we put in every engine!". I don't know if that's true or not. They had no flush machine so they had to do the old classic "fill with water, drive around, drain, refill" routine (I could have done it in my driveway), and they left the overflow reservoir with 50% new coolant, 50% old coolant. Charged me almost $400 for this. Then the technician who worked on it proceeded to tell me all about how the geartrain is on the back of the engine and all sorts of other false "facts" about the engine. He didn't even know it was common rail. We were standing next to the truck with the hood open while he was working on it as he was telling me these things.



Hence, I am not at all surprised to hear them tell you 16 qt. is the capacity. Best thing they did for my engine was steam clean it. I doubt I would even trust them to adjust the valves.



-Ryan

 

[HeavyHauler]

After viewing the new ISB at the Mid-America Trucking Show and comparing it to one they had for the Dodge, I found out there there are some MAJOR differences in the traditional Cummins ISB engine and the ones that they put in the Dodge trucks.



On the regular Cummins ISB, the gear train is in the back, it has an inline injector pump, exhaust gas recirculation system, and the list goes on...



There are virtually no similarities between the two except for cylinder displacement. I just wouldn't trust a Cummins Service Center to work on my Dodge. They're used to the commercial applications of the ISB and the larger engines for big trucks - N14, S-600, ISX...