i was looking at the quadzilla site and they have a 100hp box out for the Isbe. has anyone tried this box out yet? they have a 30 day money back guarantee. there box is pricey though.
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100hp box
- Thread starter CATCRACKER
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Catcracker,
I think the bullydog box is good for 120 hp and is switchable in 3 levels
1 stock / boost fooler
2 60 hp
3 120 hp
All from in cab
It is still new but is being tested by fellow tdr members w/ very favorable results
Best regards
DD
I think the bullydog box is good for 120 hp and is switchable in 3 levels
1 stock / boost fooler
2 60 hp
3 120 hp
All from in cab
It is still new but is being tested by fellow tdr members w/ very favorable results
Best regards
DD
that box sounds like it needs more adjustability like from 1. fooler 2. 60hp to 3. 90hp then to 4. 120hp. 60hp to 120hp is a huge jump. two thumbs up for the boost fooler only mode.
Just to clear things up a little. Our latest boxes do modify timing.
0-70hp and 130hp. The start altering timing at idle by 3 deg and increase on a curve as boost increases. Great egt's and even better fuel economy.
Yes our 0 level also works as a boost fooler.
Sorry we haven't updated our site yet.
Also the pricing is much better than it was! Especially with the TDR discount!
If you need more technical info let me know and I will clear it up.
0-70hp and 130hp. The start altering timing at idle by 3 deg and increase on a curve as boost increases. Great egt's and even better fuel economy.
Yes our 0 level also works as a boost fooler.
Sorry we haven't updated our site yet.
Also the pricing is much better than it was! Especially with the TDR discount!
If you need more technical info let me know and I will clear it up.
gzilla,
i will offer (even though you didnt ask i hope you dont mind) some advice to sell to this crowd (TDR) you have to come just short off giving up your box secrets. we need all kind of info if you want the edge crowd to look your way. i am looking your way but i need in cab control, price, technical info, reliability,adjustablilty and great customer support.
like was mentioned before spill your guts this is the place to do it with 15,000+ readers
i am interested in your box can you give all of those things that we want?
a 130hp box at $1000 might sell a little but a the same box at a little over $600 will sell 4x that. (IMO)
i will offer (even though you didnt ask i hope you dont mind) some advice to sell to this crowd (TDR) you have to come just short off giving up your box secrets. we need all kind of info if you want the edge crowd to look your way. i am looking your way but i need in cab control, price, technical info, reliability,adjustablilty and great customer support.
like was mentioned before spill your guts this is the place to do it with 15,000+ readers
i am interested in your box can you give all of those things that we want?
a 130hp box at $1000 might sell a little but a the same box at a little over $600 will sell 4x that. (IMO)
I have a prototype Bully Dog fuel pressure/ timing box on my 03 as we speak. The only other mod is an Airaid in box filter with two 2" holes drilled in the bottom of the air box. I also have an Edge EZ so here goes... ...
EZ;
Moderate power gain from low throttle to the top of the rmp range (3200). I have been told the EZ is only good to 2900 rpm's.
The EGT's are kept in check very easily. I have hit 1250* only once and that was pulling very heavy uphill with low rpm's (1600).
Bully Dog;
Bully Dog box on level 2 (60 HP) is about the same as the EZ except that it hits hard later. Almost no hit until 2200-2500 rpm's then it rips through the tach. On level 3 (120 HP) it pulls like the EZ does. At 2500 rpm's it pulls so hard it seems uncomfortable. I would like to see it pull from 1800 rpm's on up. Sgt's are much lower on the Bully Dog by almost 150*.
REMEMBER:!!!!!!!! The Bully Dog box is in the development stage and is going in a very positive direction. I am still happier with the EZ, That will change too. Bully Dog is still working on programming. I am supposed to send it back for a re flash sometime this week. We are testing MPG, EGT's, Boost, and SOP meter. Dyno testing will happen at MM. I will give and honest appraisal of both boxes on a bone stock truck. I am going to dyno with no box, then the EZ, Then the Bully Dog. I will post all results.
Disclaimer.
I am not paid by anyone at all. I have a job, my wife works.
EZ;
Moderate power gain from low throttle to the top of the rmp range (3200). I have been told the EZ is only good to 2900 rpm's.
The EGT's are kept in check very easily. I have hit 1250* only once and that was pulling very heavy uphill with low rpm's (1600).
Bully Dog;
Bully Dog box on level 2 (60 HP) is about the same as the EZ except that it hits hard later. Almost no hit until 2200-2500 rpm's then it rips through the tach. On level 3 (120 HP) it pulls like the EZ does. At 2500 rpm's it pulls so hard it seems uncomfortable. I would like to see it pull from 1800 rpm's on up. Sgt's are much lower on the Bully Dog by almost 150*.
REMEMBER:!!!!!!!! The Bully Dog box is in the development stage and is going in a very positive direction. I am still happier with the EZ, That will change too. Bully Dog is still working on programming. I am supposed to send it back for a re flash sometime this week. We are testing MPG, EGT's, Boost, and SOP meter. Dyno testing will happen at MM. I will give and honest appraisal of both boxes on a bone stock truck. I am going to dyno with no box, then the EZ, Then the Bully Dog. I will post all results.
Disclaimer.
I am not paid by anyone at all. I have a job, my wife works.
Originally posted by qzilla
Just to clear things up a little. Our latest boxes do modify timing.
0-70hp and 130hp. The start altering timing at idle by 3 deg and increase on a curve as boost increases. Great egt's and even better fuel economy.
Yes our 0 level also works as a boost fooler.
Sorry we haven't updated our site yet.
Also the pricing is much better than it was! Especially with the TDR discount!
If you need more technical info let me know and I will clear it up.
Hi there,
Just wondering what kind of additional info that you could share. I also would like to know what the price is w/ tdr discount. I have never had a box before and would like to know what the effects are on reliability and longevity of the engine are?Thanks for any help you can provide.
Eddie
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the more i read about advancing timing the less i like it. more strain on the pistons. from what i read getting power without having to advance the timing is the best route. this is easiest on the pistons. advancing timing is what leads to cracked and blown pistons this comes from some stuff i am reading. i will post some quotes later.
it all depends....
That's a good point CatC, it depends on how far one goes. Obviously, the timing from the factory is quite retarded, and can use some advancing but you're right, if the goal is to make big HP then it needs to remain somewhat retarded, but to what point? That's where we have to trust the electronic box manufacturer's to know what they are doing! Knowledge of electronics alone is not enough. They also need to know how the timing advance will impact the components you speak of, pistons, connecting rods, wrist pins etc, which of course directly relates to the longevity of our beloved Cummins. There is excellent information on these points at www.dieselinjectionofpittsburgh.com.The articles written by Bruce Mallinson are very informative.
That's a good point CatC, it depends on how far one goes. Obviously, the timing from the factory is quite retarded, and can use some advancing but you're right, if the goal is to make big HP then it needs to remain somewhat retarded, but to what point? That's where we have to trust the electronic box manufacturer's to know what they are doing! Knowledge of electronics alone is not enough. They also need to know how the timing advance will impact the components you speak of, pistons, connecting rods, wrist pins etc, which of course directly relates to the longevity of our beloved Cummins. There is excellent information on these points at www.dieselinjectionofpittsburgh.com.The articles written by Bruce Mallinson are very informative.
Last edited by a moderator:
jjd,
that is where i am getting this info about timing. i am going to contact bruce and ask him how far you can advance the timing w/ 400hp in these 5. 9l. he will probably say none we will see what he thinks about an edge comp, dd'2's, and hx40 in the isbe
that is where i am getting this info about timing. i am going to contact bruce and ask him how far you can advance the timing w/ 400hp in these 5. 9l. he will probably say none we will see what he thinks about an edge comp, dd'2's, and hx40 in the isbe
If I remember correctly?? When you posted about getting a new truck, part of your sales pitch to her was new truck warranty coverage. :-lafDD is somewhere around 550 HP with EZ, injectors, turbo and big exhaust. No timing..... How much HP do you need? My 01 runs great with 425 HP. I'm starting to think that timing is unnecessary too.
Cat... Bruce definitely knows what he's talking about when it comes to diesels. I think most of the material on the web site is about the C-series engines and beyond, but still, internal combustion pressures are important no matter what the size engine... . it's all relative. I would think that guys like Lawrence at DD and Ted at Jannetys Racing know what they are doing. Can't forget Mark at TST... I'm sure there are others as well, just a few that readily come to mind.
Greg makes a good point too, how much HP do we need? That's also relative
Greg makes a good point too, how much HP do we need? That's also relative
As Bruce suggests, too much timing advance can be detrimental to the lift expectancy of a diesel engine. How much timing, and how destructive it is will vary, depending on the opinion and experiences of the engine builder.
One thing is certain though: timing and fueling levels need to be adjusted dynamically, and optimized for the load condition that the truck is currently operating under. In the stock state, the Cummins engines are not optimized for power or for economy, but for particulate emissions reductions. Some timing advance is required to bring the engines back to their most efficient running condition (typically resulting in decreased NOx and increased particulate emissions in the case of diesel engines). How much timing advance again depends on the engine tuner, and I doubt you'll get much in the way of agreement from any of them. As an example, every single 2nd gen box uses different timing and fueling curves, based on the companies philosophy of generating power. Each product will advance the timing a fair bit (up to 17 degrees) under part throttle conditions, in order to optimize burn and fuel economy. Timing advance under WOT will be considerably less, up to about 5 degrees is the most we've seen.
One thing is certain though: timing and fueling levels need to be adjusted dynamically, and optimized for the load condition that the truck is currently operating under. In the stock state, the Cummins engines are not optimized for power or for economy, but for particulate emissions reductions. Some timing advance is required to bring the engines back to their most efficient running condition (typically resulting in decreased NOx and increased particulate emissions in the case of diesel engines). How much timing advance again depends on the engine tuner, and I doubt you'll get much in the way of agreement from any of them. As an example, every single 2nd gen box uses different timing and fueling curves, based on the companies philosophy of generating power. Each product will advance the timing a fair bit (up to 17 degrees) under part throttle conditions, in order to optimize burn and fuel economy. Timing advance under WOT will be considerably less, up to about 5 degrees is the most we've seen.
Questions...
typically resulting in decreased NOx and increased particulate emissions in the case of diesel engines).
Timing has only little to do with particulate emissions. NOx INCREASES with higher timing and decreases with lower timing.
(up to 17 degrees) under part throttle conditions
17degrees?????
Nah c'mon... .
Marco
typically resulting in decreased NOx and increased particulate emissions in the case of diesel engines).
Timing has only little to do with particulate emissions. NOx INCREASES with higher timing and decreases with lower timing.
(up to 17 degrees) under part throttle conditions
17degrees?????
Nah c'mon... .
Marco
Got it!
Straight from the manfacturer, Marco
I thought you had some first hand knowledge. Instead it's clear that you simply report what others have told you.
Marco, Italy? Is that where you are located?... I was there last summer, what part are you in?... . I thought I drove fast, until I went to Italy!
Yep, Verona, Italy. ( Near Venice) (Garda Lake)
I think my truck is the one with the highest average speed. .
Where have you been in Italy? I hope you enjoyed it!
Marco
Straight from the manfacturer, Marco
I thought you had some first hand knowledge. Instead it's clear that you simply report what others have told you.
Marco, Italy? Is that where you are located?... I was there last summer, what part are you in?... . I thought I drove fast, until I went to Italy!
Yep, Verona, Italy. ( Near Venice) (Garda Lake)
I think my truck is the one with the highest average speed. .
Where have you been in Italy? I hope you enjoyed it!
Marco
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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