10K Axle PJ Dump 20' Trailer Brake Upgrades

[DPrew]

I'm going to upgrade my electric trailer brake to hydraulic over electric and wanted to hear from anyone who has done this and how much it helped. The electric brakes just don't cut it when towing 20K plus. I hear it's outrageous to go disc but I'm getting a price on that as well.

 

[HBarlow]

Trailer electric brakes work fine when they are in good shape with good magnets, good brake shoes properly adjusted, and fitted to the drums.

Your problem is more likely to be lack of brake maintenance, inadequate wiring carrying the current to the brakes, and a cheap inertia-activated brake controller.

You're likely to spend a small fortune on electric-hydraulic brakes and still have inadequate trailer brake wiring and brake controller.

Personally, I don't like trailer hydraulic disc brakes because of the delay between brake pedal and actual clamping down of the calipers.

 

[NIsaacs]

I agree with Harvey. Your trailer should have 12-1/4"x4" brakes. Make sure everything is in order, especially the wiring. The ground wire is critical. The brakes can be grounded to the trailer in a dozen places, but if the ground is weak from the tow vehicle the brakes still wont work. If you use grease on your hitch ball or even if you don't, the ground is not consistent so the ground wire from your truck HAS to be. Will it lock up the brakes empty? Have someone help you and with your trailer lights on ,step on the brakes and see if the lights dim.



I pulled a tandem axle dually for 20 years and I never questioned the brake system. If all is right, they work great. Also if you have oil bath hubs make sure you don't have a small leak and have oily shoes.



Nick

 

[DPrew]

I went a head with the disc brakes which are ten times stronger then what a small magnet could do. My electric brakes were OK to a gross of maybe 15-18K but after that they were way over worked and scared me.

The one problem it looks like I found with hydraulic disc brakes is my Tekonsha P3 controller in boost modes above one cause a surge in the hyraulic brake pressure. With electric brakes boost level 3 works great for triple 7K or tandem 10K axles.

With my hydraulic disc brakes in boost level 3 there was a delay when I hit the brakes then the brakes came on with a surge. While coming home with a load of 12 yards of material (17,000 lbs) I stopped at a gas station and noticed smoke coming off the back of the trailer. Every caliper was leaking brake fluid along with the pump. I was thinking what the F is going on.

I went back to Magnum who installed the disc brakes this morning but they weren't sure what caused the problem. My trailer was still loaded so I have to come back on Monday once I've had time to empty my trailers load.

After leaving Magnum I talking to the guys at Nationwide Trailer in Houston where I bought the trailer and I learned with the P3 boost level one for a loaded trailer works best and boost level zero is best for unloaded. I changed my boost number to one and upped my overall controller number by a few numbers. I noticed after that the surge was gone and the brakes felt just like really powerful electric brakes after that. I was towing 26,000 pounds and the discs stopped the trailer just fine.

At the very least all the o-rings in my calipers are going to have to be replaced I'm guessing. I guess I'll see what Magnum says after I drop off the trailer on Monday. You wouldn't think your brake controller could damage a $3800 hydraulic braking system but that is definitely how it is looking.

 

[jelag]

I built a trailer with 2 - 12K Dexter axles with hydraulic disc brakes. . we drove this trailer 125K miles with no problems other than ice and snow that would build up on the bottom of the trailer requiring us to change the wiring and running it through tubing (conduit) welded to the frame... For this to work well it needs a good automotive battery charged by the charging system on the trailer... we installed a group 24... . it was within 3 ft of the pump and we installed it in a box to simplify service...

It stopped in about 30% (guess) less distance than the electric brake... we used a brake smart controller so that the harder and faster you pressed the brake pedal the harder and faster the trailer brakes would come on...

It was a surprise but with it loaded 22K you could dynamite the brakes and actually lock up all the tires on the 2 axles... so as we changed the load we'd constantly change the controller... . It was a great set up...

Like I said in the other post make sure you have the right pump... one for disc brakes rated at something like 1500 lbs... .

Hope this helps...

 

[HBarlow]

I went a head with the disc brakes which are ten times stronger then what a small magnet could do. My electric brakes were OK to a gross of maybe 15-18K but after that they were way over worked and scared me.

The one problem it looks like I found with hydraulic disc brakes is my Tekonsha P3 controller in boost modes above one cause a surge in the hyraulic brake pressure. With electric brakes boost level 3 works great for triple 7K or tandem 10K axles.

With my hydraulic disc brakes in boost level 3 there was a delay when I hit the brakes then the brakes came on with a surge. While coming home with a load of 12 yards of material (17,000 lbs) I stopped at a gas station and noticed smoke coming off the back of the trailer. Every caliper was leaking brake fluid along with the pump. I was thinking what the F is going on.

I went back to Magnum who installed the disc brakes this morning but they weren't sure what caused the problem. My trailer was still loaded so I have to come back on Monday once I've had time to empty my trailers load.

After leaving Magnum I talking to the guys at Nationwide Trailer in Houston where I bought the trailer and I learned with the P3 boost level one for a loaded trailer works best and boost level zero is best for unloaded. I changed my boost number to one and upped my overall controller number by a few numbers. I noticed after that the surge was gone and the brakes felt just like really powerful electric brakes after that. I was towing 26,000 pounds and the discs stopped the trailer just fine.

At the very least all the o-rings in my calipers are going to have to be replaced I'm guessing. I guess I'll see what Magnum says after I drop off the trailer on Monday. You wouldn't think your brake controller could damage a $3800 hydraulic braking system but that is definitely how it is looking.

I know you won't want to hear this advice and may not even believe it but your first and largest problem is the useless pos Tekonsha inertia-activated brake controller you're using.

If you throw it in a dumpster where it belongs and buy a MaxBrake you'll see what I've been preaching for years is accurate and the surging and abuse of the hydraulic trailer brake system will be eliminated.

 

[NIsaacs]

I went a head with the disc brakes which are ten times stronger then what a small magnet could do.





How did you come up with that figure? If your old brakes would not work on flat ground (Texas) something was wrong. I used mine (electric) in the log woods with heavy loads on 12% grades, they never faltered.



Nick



.

 

[DPrew]

I went a head with the disc brakes which are ten times stronger then what a small magnet could do.





How did you come up with that figure? If your old brakes would not work on flat ground (Texas) something was wrong. I used mine (electric) in the log woods with heavy loads on 12% grades, they never faltered.



Nick



.

The ten times better is a seat of my pants number. They really shouldn't even offer electric brakes on a 20' dump trailer in my opinion. You get past what the brakes can handle was before you reach the trailers max GCWR of 25,000. The load in my trailer now is about 26,000 GCWR. Some of my past loads may have been a few thousand pounds heavier.



If you drive a loaded trailer with electric and then one with hydraulic disc you will easily be able to tell how much stronger the disc's are. It's not even close.



My 21' triple 7K axle trailer hauls as much as 20-21K with less problems but it has an extra set of brakes to help.



The west Austin area is hilly and has signs warning about 10% grades. The ten percent grades have left many tired old dump truck stuck on the side of the road trying to climb the hills. Have also seen some trucks lose their brakes on these hill and end up out in the woods.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm sorry but if you had a brake controller in your truck you'd realize how mistaken you are on that opinion.

With 4. 10 gears in my truck, an exhaust brake, a BrakeSmart controller, and larger HD brakes in my HitchHiker and hydraulic dump trailer I'm not worried about any downgrade I've ever encountered anywhere in the lower 48, Canada, or Alaska.