Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 12 or 24 valves?

[SCox]

I need some input guys, I have come across a great deal on a 01 24v HO 6spd, 4x4 xcab. Do I get rid of the 12v in favor of the 24v? Any input is appreciated, I have to know by tommorow if I want this truck!



Thanks

Steve

 

[shendren]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!! KEEP THE 12V. I JUST TALKED TO MARK CHAPPLE AT TST. HE HAS NUMEROUS CTD'S. BOTH 12 AND 24V. HE SAID THE MOST RELIABLE TRUCKS ARE THE 12V'S. JIM JESSUP (CUMMINS GURU) SAID THE SAME THING. GOOD LUCK. SCOTT.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

I say go for it! That is if you want power anyway. I have never ridden in a 12v truck that ran anything like a well-running 24v.

 

[J.R. Adkins]

POWER

All the trucks with POWER are 12valves!!!!







J. R.

 

[Steve Roseman]

But a six speed, tough choice!

 

[illflem]

Would you rather own a vehicle whose engine has a bunch of pollution devices on it or just a straight engine? Keep the 12

 

[Briar Hopper]

From a guy who owns a 465 HP 24 valve 2001 dually, this will sound strange... . but I say, keep the 12 if you're happy with it.

Get a SECOND truck, preferably another 12, with the $$$ you were gonna spend to get the new 24. That way, you can keep the miles off one of them. Or build a hotrod/daily beater, save the 97 for church and towing the travel trailer.

I see your 97 12 has an auto. Usually considered a bit of a drawback, or at least it used to be until we found ATS of Colorado.....

Six speed NV5600's can be transplanted into 12 valve trucks. It's been done quite a bit. That is, if a six is your reason for wanting to trade. I'd rather have an old 12 than two NEW 24 V trucks.

No regrets about buying mine, though, I love it. I'm not afraid of it's electrical system. I've seen electrical problems on the 12's, also.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Bunch of pollution devices"?



Please provide the LONG list they must present...



Methinks you EXAGGERATE!



A *bunch*!





The 24 valve engine constantly gets a bum rap - seemingly more because it's the "popular" thing to do than because of any REAL issues - sorta like knocking SUV's is in some groups...



As far as I have been able to determine, the only advantage - and for MOST of us, it's minor - is that the 12 valve engine is slightly cheaper and easier to get EXTREME power increases out of. Now, if you're seriously interested in drag racing or sled pulls, the 12 valve MAY be best for you but in the REAL world, the 24 valve is gonna do everything you want/need it too, and for anything NEAR a normal power increase, will deliver THAT too for the same price ranges the 12 valvers will!



Will ANYONE here try to convince me that there are NO headgasket failures in the 12 valve engines - that none of those "#53" blocks develop cracks - and none of the 12 valvers had cats on them? Are we REALLY supposed to believe the 12 valve engines are "all good" - while the 24 valvers are "all bad"?



C'mon guys, get REAL!



OH, has anyone else noticed that the 24 valvers are rated by Cummins at an average of *400 thousand miles* before O'haul, compared to 300 thousand for the 12 valve - not bad for an "inferior' engine!



There may be no significant reasons to purposely choose a 24 valve engine over a 12 valve one - other than the HO engine - but there's dern sure NO REASON to AVOID one, either!



Like I said - the 24 valve engine is getting a bum rap - I traded an older 12 valve for my current '02, have NO regrets -and wouldn't have REGARDLESS of the valve count, I truly feel it's a non-issue for the vast majority of us!

 

[illflem]

Gary, the "Bunch of pollution devices" I refer to are a ECM and PCM that control fueling, timing etc and specialized tools($$$) to diagnose and reprogram. Mega byte bunches of them. I prefer the simplicity of the 12 valve, piece of baling wire to hold up shutdown solenoid and you don't even need an electrical system to keep it running. Another plus is the 12s don't have a lift pump problem that doesn't seem to have any long term solution.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

If I wire the fuel lever on the P7100 injection pump to the "on" position, the engine will run until it is out of fuel. The entire electrical system can burn up and the 12 valve engine will run.



The 24 valve has unreliable lift and injection pumps and a plethora of electrical sensors feeding a nasty pcm. One electrical glitch, and the ocean of electrons won't have any more tides And, you'll be standing at the side of the road with your thumb out. You can't diagnose it without thousands of $ in computer stuff, either. Even then the message is likely to be something moronic like injection pump failure. Duh, we already knew that.

 

[LarryB]

Yea! What them guys said! 24 valves are not better, just newer. If your ego can't stand to be seen in an old 12 valve then you're the one who has to decide. Me? I love thumbing my nose at people who spend their money to "Look" better than me. :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Bigsaint]

As much as I love my truck, I think I would have preferred the simplicity of the 12 valve over the computer diagnostics in this truck.



If you are happy with your truck right now, why not consider a 6 speed conversion ?



Scott W.

 

[DarrellB]

What a hard decision

12 valve = easy Bombing, less all the cumputer crap, P-pump, easier to work on, no lift pump problem, better sounding motor.



24 valve = ability to turn off the mods by a switch, better fuel milage, nicer interier, NO Killer Dowel Pin, no fuel sender problems, more valves than a 12 valver, less smoke when bombed, better power band.



I don't think I helped any,



I like my 24valve and don't think I would trade it for a 12valver.



Just something about being a few valves short of a real diesel motor that doesn't sit real good with me. :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf



Just a thought

Darrell

 

[Bigsaint]

DOH !!! Here, BigD, take this Nomex jacket, I think you might need it



Scott W.

 

[DarrellB]

Got it on! even put the hood on too



Just Bring It



Darrell

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

You wanna know which is better Go over to the ford site and even those guys say get a 12 valve cummins for ultimate reliability. I say keep the 12 valve but it seems like everyone thinks like that cause i can't find a decent 12 valve 5 speed in my area for sale unless it has over 200k on it. Found lots of really nice autos but no 5 speeds i am starting to wonder if DC made very many 97 and early 98 5 speeds. the 24 valve engine may very well last 400k plus miles but how many lift pumps and

vp 44's will it take to get to those kind of miles.

 

[Roger rodbolt]

12 Valve 4x4 with 9,000 miles for sale

For those of you that prefer a 12 valve truck, I met a guy at the truck pull in Sullivan, MO on saturday night that has an always garaged truck for sale. It's a one owner 1996 black, 2500 4x4, 5speed, standard cab. Price is $20,000 and the truck is factory stock. Price is up there but this has to be a rare find. I own, drive and maintain both 1rst and 2nd generation trucks with all three pumps. Luv all of them but I prefer the 24 valve (with modifications ).



Cummins Cowboy,

If you really want a low mileage 12 vavle truck I'll try to find this guy as I didn't get his name. There were at least two other TDR members there that spoke to him and one of them lives in Sullivan.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Knocking the 24 valver basically due to it's (comparative) MODERATE use of computerized engine controls is shortsighted, foolish, and totally IGNORES the fact that while those controls DO provide a measure of upgraded emission controls, they ALSO, and PRIMARILY provide a much more reliable, efficient and POWERFUL engine! PLUS the fact that such controls provide a faster, easier and less expensive route to reasonable additional engine power and efficiency!



The mere fact the emissions improvement is PART of that package is HARDLY reason to trash the whole parcel - especially when MOST of you are also quite happily driving various smaller family vehicles that are FAR more "computerized" and EPA controlled - and you're probably QUITE content with THEM!



Cussing the 24 valve because of lift pump problems is very much like cussing the 12 valvers because the older ones overheated, had bad brakes, blew headgaskets, had defective AT cooling line connectors, suffered from the notorious "death wobble", commonly cracked around the injector plugs and exhaust valves, frequently cracked exhaust manifolds - or had bad 5 speed trannies and auto trannies...



Or have some conveniently forgotten all those... ? Don't confuse - or confuse others over the difference between ENGINES and PERIPHERALS!



I think poor common sense and lack of balanced reason has blinded some here to the realities of past problems, weaknesses and outright failures in the 12 valve engines... Yeah - they are GOOD overall, but PERFECT - or even "More perfect" than the 24 valve? I think NOT - and *I* dern sure DON'T need guys over in the FORD group to tell ME which Cummins is "best" for me. . NOR do I think it logical or mature to knock technology simply because it *IS* technology - it's not ALL bad!



As far as "getting left along the road" is concerned - it REALLY doesn't make much difference if *I* get left there due to a failed lift pump in a 24 valver - OR a "Killer dowel pin" in a 12 valver - it's STILL a long walk EITHER way, and BOTH are the direct result of failures in engineering design, and these and similar failures and weaknesses are relatively common to all makes and engine types - the 12 valvers are NO exception!



I'll certainly agree that computerized control ONLY or PRIMARILY for emissions purposes is likely something to avoid - but to blithely suggest that is the case with current 24 valve engine, and avoid them mainly for that reason, simply places you squarely back in the dark ages of engine technology! And it is CERTAINLY not accurate as far as these engines are concerned - tho I fear it MAY be true of the NEXT generation of Cummins used in these trucks, which is why I bought the one I now have...

 

[T. Baker]

Gary, I don't own much computer stuff except the one I am typing on. I fixed my KDP but I could not fix a computarized pump. I have fixed tons of mechanical things but never have I fixed a microchip. If you are good a fixing computers and micro elontronics I have respect for that. I avoid computer control on anthing I can avoid it on.

 

[illflem]

Gary, it sounds like you're trying to compare a 1st gen 12 valve to a 24. Think this thread started concerning keeping a '97.