Off Roading 12 volt winch capacity

[TEasley]

My truck is as bad off-road as it is good on the road. I stuck it in wet sand at a creek crossing a week ago, and took 2 hrs to get it out. I don't expect it to be good off pavement, but occasionally have to get off, so I started wondering how large a winch would have to be to pull the truck through sand or 6" deep mud, with the truck helping. Never been on this forum before, but figured this would be the place to find out about winches.



Thanks for any help, Tom.

 

[TJJEEPER]

The rule of thumb is between 2 and 2 1/2 times the weight of the vehicle. You can actually have a harder pull getting unstuck than just lifting the rig.

That said, you MIGHT be able to get along with a 12,000 lb winch but when I finally winch up it'll be this. I've got the 9. 5ti on my Jeep and it's been flawless. 16. 5ti is it's bigger brother.

There are lots of cheaper winches available but the club I wheel with almost all run warns because they are typically the most reliable. Warn, Ramsey, and Superwinch* are all reliable winches. Cheap winches can be had at Harbor Freight/Northern Tool etc. They are all of Chinese Mfg and all look the same with rebadging. Pays your money and takes your chances.

*Looks a lot like the Chinese Winches at a higher cost. Better parts?

 

[TJJEEPER]

Yes, I carry a snatch block, two 30' tow straps, 1 tree strap, and 3 shackles. Sometimes that snatch point is more than 65' away (1/2 the 125' single pull cable length). A pull pal would help but they sometimes don't work in the rocks and the rocks aren't stable enough to be pulling on. Of course this is the Jeep. I'd never take the truck anywhere off a forest service ROAD. Heck, I've already sunk the front end in the backyard lawn!

 

[hammersley]

well the 1st problem that you have is a 2wd BUT you

can't do much about that now - and being in Texas - most are 2wd's from what I see..... now about a winch - if you are going to winch for under a minute - then an electric is OK..... but if you want to have a winch that you can winch all day - yes all day - get this one - afterall the US Army traded in their electric winches on the Hummers for it... ... and it came from the marine industry... ...



Just look at the picture - you decide... don't do with the "herd mentality" - lead it!



Mile Marker - Abused Worldwide!! Hydraulic and Electric Winches



and in case you think we're blowing smoke - look at this British site... .



4x4winches.com - WINCH-A-MILE



The Venue... ... The marathon was planned to run on a military vehicle training site (near Stone Henge), come rain or shine and not surprisingly it rained ... . all day. We chose a hill steeper and twice as long as the most demanding used at "Weston Park", an expedition prepared Land Rover 110 weighing in at just under 3 tons and a neutral, UK 4x4 magazine editor, to umpire. Bob Cook from "Off-road & 4WD", Dave Heard and his son Ashley all stood patiently in the pouring rain as the MileMarker effortlessly pulled the big 110 up and down the 32 yard slope 55 times. The sun went down just over half way through our winch-a-thon, so last two hours took place in the dark with the Land Rover itself provided the lighting.



The Cost... ... After around 7 hours of powering up and down the steep slope non-stop, the only damage was a slightly frayed wire rope, a sore thumb and two pairs of sore leg muscles. The pump and motor ran at a fairly constant temperature (just touch hot) throughout and we could have easily carried on for another mile or two, since on tick-over, the 3. 5 litre V8 had only used a couple of gallons.



Disturbance... ... We were in the middle of "Sidbury Hill Military Vehicle Test Site" without official permission and until we put the headlights on, only a couple of kids, who had happened upon us, actually knew we were there. The winch is silent, the big V8 was just running on tick-over and the loudest noise was the creaking of the straining wire rope. When we left the site, the steep slope we had been up and down so many times was merely compacted, with no deep ruts. The "tread lightly" attributes of a winch that can pull unassisted, should not be understated, after all just two of three "drive-assist" pulls with a lesser winch and the 110 would have been axle deep in mud, in such wet conditions.



The Challenge We challenge any of our battery powered competitors or winch owner to a similar tough test, or a competition. We reckon that no battery powered winch could have even completed one pull of this marathon without overheating. Indeed at "Billing" (Europe's largest Off-road show) last year, we all saw an electric winch burn out, pulling a Land Rover 90 just a few yards on flat ground, because it hadn't been allowed to cool down properly. Goodness me! If there are any sceptics out there, we will repeat our test, for a small fee and please on a sunny day.





OH and folks will tell you well you can't use the winch when the truck isn't running - well if th etruck isn't running you have a heck of a lot bigger problem than being stuck - do you plan on winching yourself home??? And you can run the milemarker COMPLETELY under WATER -try thay with an electric!!!

 

[TEasley]

Looks like I was right about this forum.

I've had the truck for 11 yrs and stuck it only twice, but both times were serious. I am going to have to be more cautious, or carry some serious help, (winch) or both, since I'm usually on my own. I do have a Honda Foreman 4wd with a 2000# Warn on it, and have used it both times to help or go get help.



Andres, didn't know there was an alternative to wire rope. Is PullPal a screw anchor? I need to go to a good 4-wheeling store and look at this stuff.



As for straps and D-rings, Iv'e carried 50 feet of 1" mooring line (poly), 2 big shackles, and some short pieces of 1/4" chain with grab hooks for years. This last time, I used all of it. I will look at straps and D-rings now.



Thanks to all; anybody else jump in. I'll check this forum at least once a day.



Tom

 

[hammersley]

The milemarker electrics - I can't say anything about them

The Milemarker Electric is made in CHINA!!!! The Hydraulic ic made HERE in the USA!!!! You get what you pay for!!!!



I wouldn't own an electric..... I've only had my hudraulic for a year and a half - I've used it about a dozen times... ... once for 4 hours pulling driftwood at the OCEAN - a lot of salt water I might add - my drum is like new!!!



It is not slow at all: THE MILEMARKER HYDRAULIC is a completely different animal than the electric... . it won't rust like the one you had... ... and here is the speed data - an electric is SLOWER than a hydraulic!!!



This is the Warn Data on 12,000 lb electric



Warn Industries - Heavy-Weight Series: M12000

Mile Marker H-Series 12,000 lbs 2-speed Hydraulic Winches





Warn Milemarker Hydraulic

Pull 12,000 lbs 12,000 lbs

Feet Per Min 3. 86 5. 86

 

[Andres]

What's what's good about this board, spirited disagreement and hopefully enlightenment.



Those specs on the Milemarker look good, I've never seen one in the field that has worked very well. Most of the owners complain. I'm glad yours is working out.



I've been using this winch which is real fast. I hate slow winches (of any type).



Warn Industries - Ultimate Performance Series: 9. 5xp



My beef with Milemarker has to do with poor quality and a "dont give a damn attitude" Hopefully that's just my bad luck.



I had 2 m12000 from Warn. They worked well other than being a bit on the slow side. The 9. 5xp, is a newer model and a great winch.

 

[CRuth]

Hydraulic or PTO winches are fine if you do a lot of winching and aren't in a hurry. But how many of use our winches that much? And you can submerge an electric winch. 12volts doesn't travel well in water. Not that you want to do that if you can avoid it.



I have a fairly small electric winch on my Jeep because I don't expect to sink it down to the frame rails. Ninety nine out a hundred pulls will be just a boost to get me out of a tight spot. I expect the opposite on the truck. That thing sinks in a mud hole I figure I'll be pulling the weight of the truck and then some. Get the biggest you can afford.



Snatch blocks are great, just don't forget that while you're doubling your pulling power, you're halving the amount of cable you have available.

 

[CRuth]

Be interesting to some of that stuff filter down to the domestic market. I didn't think they were even close on led headlights yet.

 

[Pavemen]

hydraulic requires the engine to be running. at least with an electric, you can swap out batteries if you are not running and drain your current ones

 

[hammersley]

hydraulic requires the engine to be running. at least with an electric, you can swap out batteries if you are not running and drain your current ones



You're right BUT if your engine ain't running - as I said - you have a lot bigger problem than being STUCK!

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You might check out TDR #47, 51 for discussions on winches.

 

[bonito]

I have a Milmarker 12000 winch and it has not left me behind yet, may have to use a snach block...

 

[TEasley]

I've been watching to see if anyone else was going to post before asking. Does the hydraulic winch use the power steering/hydroboost pump for power? I checked several websites and none of them said how the hydraulic winch got its power. A couple of posts stated that if the engine wasn't running, the winch wouldn't work, so that must be the case. Anyway, the electric (American made) winches look like the best deal for infrequent use. The Warn on my Foreman has had a hard life, including being under water. It "takes a licking and keeps on ticking".

BTW, never sink one in salt water. It's a fair electrolyte, and would probably fry an electric winch.



RHerzberg; Great pic, good info! The Milemarkers are about 1/2 the price of the Warn.



I have a nephew who owns a wrecking yard, and he's started looking for me a used one too. Still haven't had time to get to a 4-wheeling store.



Both episodes of getting stuck were on hunting leases, which is the only time I get off the road if I can help it. I'm pretty much going to have to be self-sufficient.



Thanks to all for the education, Tom

 

[TEasley]

Andres; good advice. I carry 2-4 gallons of bottled water, an ice chest full of ice (more water) and enough MRE's and other non-perishibles to hold out for awhile. Always a cell phone (which frequently has no signal), and my ATV to fall back on. I do prefer to hunt with my brothers, but many times that doesn't work out. One last safety provision: My brothers and my family always know where I am going.



Thanks very much for the info and advice. Tom.