12v or 24V in a 1964 GMC carryall 4x4

[Cumminpwr11]

My uncle is giving me his 1964 gmc carryall!! I been wanting to do a conversion for the longest time, but I am not sure what this all entales. I understand that all conversions are different and require fab work but I need rough guesses. Hear are my questions



Q1. How much fab work should I plan on?



Q2. Do they make motor mounts or does this go back to Q1?



Q3. Will the frame support the torque? (hate to twist the frame )



Q4: What can I look at spending total cost? (or what did most of yall spend, this will give me a good plan of attack)



Q5: Undervalve or overvalve 12v or 24V which will be easier do? and csot difference between the to.



Q6: Reliability?



Q7: not sure what my axels are, but what would be a good rule of thumb to know if they can handle the torque and weight?



Q8: Did I miss anything, or problems you encountered?



Thanks

ChrisOo.

 

[Steve Campbell]

I do not know much about the 64 carry-all. Generally, things were built heavier back then.

Q1 probably a lot of fab. Motor mounts(Q2) I would take a long look at how the frame is constructed. Boxing it in, instead of just the "C" shape is great, just watch whe area where you decide to end the boxing (if not done correctly, it may brake there --Q3. )

Q4 no guess

Q5 12V unless you are an electrical wizard.

Q6 This must apply to the rest of the GMC Larger and newer everything as far as the running gear goes will keep the failure rate down. (Q7 here)

Q8 Springs to support the added weight up front.



Pretty poor response by me. These kinds of projects for me always take longer and involve more money than I thought to begin with. Lots of hidden things to deal with.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Got ant pics of a carry all. . I can't picture it. is it a 3/4t or 1T?



As long as there's room it shouldn't be that bad.



It gets much harder when you're cramped for space. check out



http://cgi2.x-pointcgi.com/~dieselrepower/index.html



He's done a lot. . always answers my questions.

 

[bvanetten]

Q1. How much fab work should I plan on?



Mucho fab work.



Q2. Do they make motor mounts or does this go back to Q1?



Go back to Q1



Q3. Will the frame support the torque? (hate to twist the frame )



More on this later



Q4: What can I look at spending total cost? (or what did most of yall spend, this will give me a good plan of attack)



Depends on your approach. Are you buying all your parts piecemeal or buying a donor truck? Getting the whole truck is normally cheaper.



Q5: Undervalve or overvalve 12v or 24V which will be easier do? and csot difference between the to.



I believe the 24v motors have their own computers? and don't need the dodge computer. They run them in motorhomes... right? I really like the simplicity of the 12v mechanical but it would be nice to choose your power level with the puch of a button. For me it would depend on what kind of deal I could get on either one. It would boil down to dollars with me.



Q6: Reliability?



Cummins. Need I say more?



Q7: not sure what my axels are, but what would be a good rule of thumb to know if they can handle the torque and weight?



I would question the ability of the original axles to put up with the weight and power of the Cummins. Remember, you are dealing with a set of 38 year old axles. They probably arn't geared right anyway. Newer axles would be the way to go.



Q8: Did I miss anything, or problems you encountered?



Here's a question for you:

Q1: What's your end goal. Do you want a 64 carry-all with 38 year-old 64 carry-all problems and a Cummins motor or do you want a 199? Dodge Cummins that LOOKS like a 64 carry-all.



When I did my conversion I was lucky enough to get the advice of a friend of mine who used to own and opperate a body shop and had did his fare share of custom work before. It boils down to Restoration or Custom. In a resto you keep EVERYTHING STOCK. To deviate from this is custom and if your going to go custom, GO CUSTOM! Take advantage of all of the engineering advancements the past 38 years has brought us. I would look seriously into buying a whole truck for the conversion and then measuring and measuring and measuring. Maybe you need to build a custom frame that conforms to the carry-all body and attach all your parts to it or maybe (like in my case) you can get away with using the Dodge chassis. You just won't know until you get some measurements on paper.



I tell you what. Theres nothing better that someone looking at your "old" 64 and thinking it is going to drive out like an "old 64 and then telling you (after a ride) that " this thing drive like a new truck!). I hope you can make it happen. A 1964 Carry-all/cummins would kick some serious butt!

 

[LarryB]

Might be better to put the Carryall body on the Ram frame and all.



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[Cumminpwr11]

thanks for all the advice



bvanetten I was looking for a 1971 chevy sub 3 door cause I saw your webpage on your conversion.



Mark I dont have any pics right now , but when I do i will post them. but it looks like a burb with only 2 doors and a barn doors in the rear of the truck if that helps. has windows in the back not a panel





thanks again



Chris



ps. is there anyone out in southern cal that I could talk to about this conversion?

 

[tk064]

If the engine bay is long enough, everything should fit. the Motor mounts and cross member should be easy to adapt.



I would find as much of the drivetrain as I could from a ram, including the rear axel. This will help keep your costs down and simplify the process. A donor truck will def. keep the nickle and diming down.



I can't help with the 12v / 24v because I am having the same delima with the ISB 3. 9 versus the older 4bt in my 42 project.



Good luck

 

[bvanetten]

Hey Cumminpwr11,

Below is a link I found that has production #'s for your Chevy.



http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7756/production1.htm



Looks like it's probably a 1/2 ton. Is this what it looks like?





LarryB is right. Fitting the body on the frame would be a good way to go (that's what I did). You will probably have to jimmy things around a bit but for the most part it will be stock (read easy to replace) parts. One of my dreams is to put a 1940's to 1950's Dodge Powerwagon or Carryall on a Dodge/Cummins chassis. And then I start pricing is out and reality smacks me upside the head.

 

[tk064]

1942 Dodge WC 53 3/4 ton carryall is what I am working on.



The only way I can get a 6cyl in is if I move the radiator shell forward and the firewall backward. I don't want to cut that much so I am search of a 4 cyl. Debating between buying a whole truck (like the Frito suggestion above) or a frame cut out.



My big problem is which model 4 cyl to make "my goal". Someone allready put GM 1 ton axels in, so I will probably stay with them. Would like to find a 4 with a GM bellhousing or transmission attached.



Your right about the cost, but my wife said go ahead. I need to get it finished before she finds my checkbook (or the bank calls)



I'll take any suggestions

 

[Cumminpwr11]

Mark



I tried to send him an email through his like on his repower page, but it wouldnt go through. Is there another way to get a hold of him?





Chris

 

[Cumminpwr11]

Does anyone know of some one that does these conversions in southern california?

 

[bvanetten]

tk064



How much room are you lacking? Are you very good at body work? Or know someone who is? I know this sounds alot easier than it is but how about extending the front clip or better yet building a bit of a dog house in the firewall to allow the motor to sit back some. That way the truck looks stock from the outside. If all you need is an extra 4 inches (we are talking about trucks... right!) fabing a doghouse might work. I've heard those 4 cyl motors are rough idling even with the automotive ballancer. I'd sure want to feel one run before I bought.

 

[tk064]

Firewall to the front of my fan pulley is 29", I could MAYBE scrounge another 1". I have thought about adding on to the back of the radiator shell to make up the room, but I'm afraid it might look funny. I'm not sure how much room the 6 cyl needs. I've been very concerned about the vibration of the 4 based on threads, but the people I have talked to with a 4 conversion have said that they are not that bad.



How much room does the 6cyl need. My guess is ~6" more than I have.



I'm concerned that if I doghouse too much, that I will not have room for the AC. The entire works will (evaporater etc) will need to be inside.



Thanks for any help



Tim

 

[bvanetten]

From the back of the motor to the front of the fan pully will be about 36". How much room do you have between the radiator and the grill. Could you not run a mechanical fan and run an electrical in front of the radiator? I wouldn't think a 6 or 7 inch doghouse would cause you much grief. Have you checked out www.vintageair.com they have some sweet ac units that will fit just about anywhere, even behind the seat. Finding a way to put a 6 in that baby would make it a way cool ride. Put a DTT transmission behind it with shifter off of the floor or better yet, off of the doghouse! Bomb the he!! out of it and start pickin on some mustang's! A setup like that couldn't be that heavy. You would be wicked fast!



Bruce

 

[tk064]

I took some measurements again, firewall to radiator is only 34 inches. The radiator cannot be moved foreward and still accomodate an ac condenser, in fact it might need to go back a half inch or so.



The interior foot room is only 14" (the old cabs were tight) to take out 7 inches would only give 7" from door jamb to firewall. That would be way too tight for comfort.



I think I'm back to the 4bt, or a gas small block V-8.



Thanks for you comments.

 

[cjohnson1]

How about posting some pictures of the firewall inside and out. My friend and I once put a Corvette 327 in an Austin Healy. It was tight and we had to modify the firewall but it fit.

Your saying you have 14 inches from the door post to the footboard. This is confusing to me. If you move the firewall back you do not have to move the whole thing rearwards. Just where the engine block is. And we're talking a straight six cylinder motor here. So the only part coming into the cab will be in the center above the transmission hump. The dash would cover that up once you put it back in. Cuz,,,, your gonna want to take it out to cut the firewall. Worst case senario is you will have to relocate the heater core. If I remember right the 64 hearer core was in the center so just move it over to the passenger side. It is unlikely the 64 has an "In the dash" AC. I think they were mounted under the dash as aftermarket items. You should be able to make a doghouse in the firewall for two to three inches and have room you need.

AS the old saying goes, Pictures say a thousand words.

Good luck with it and don't give up just yet, IF you really want a TD 6 banger then remember where there is a will there is a way.

CJ

PS. GO to the book store and get a "HP Metal Fabricators Handbook" or racecar chassis book and study up on firewalls. After all if they can put a Big Block Ford in a Pinto you should be able to fit this.

 

[bvanetten]

Like cjohnson1, I was a bit confused also. Your 64 and my 72 arn't all that much different on the inside and I would have room for a doghouse. If you have room for a center console then you have room for a doghouse. We are talking about making a "hump" or protrusion out of the firewall that will accomedate the motor, not moving the whole firewall. Does your 64 have factory AC? Even if it does you might be better off in the long run with an aftermarket unit. Keep us up to date.



Bruce

 

[tk064]

I think there is confusion because of two similar threads, I originally replied to the guy with the 64 carryall.



I have a 42 Dodge carryall, which has a much smaller engine bay and interior area. I will borrow a camera to provide some pics. The vehicle was originally a military radio truck. It looks like the flat fender Dodge Power Wagons, but with an enclosed bed.



Tim

 

[Cumminpwr11]

I have the 64. I plan in shoehorning the 6 in there. looking like there is a ton on room in there. yes mine has factory AC.



Bruce, I have a found a good fabricator that builds race trucks. I am considering putting it on a 90+ 2500 dodge. is there anything that I should be aware of? Cause cutting the frame and flipping a sections seams pretty difficult. Just curious what you came across when you did yours this way?





Chris

 

[bvanetten]

Chris,



Well if you got yourself a good fab guy you have just saved yourself a ton of headaches. I really didn't want to cut the frame but after measuring the wheelbases (dodge was longer) I knew something was going to have to change. Because of the way most frames follow the contour of the body moving the spring perches would have opened up a big can of worms. Bottom line, a chunck of frame between the axles needed to go (4" to be exact). The chassis being a standard cab just compounded the problem. How far back does the floorboard of your 64 keep the same elevation past the front seat? If the middle seat passengers have footwell room then you will probably have to flip a chunk on the frame or come up with some other creative solution. If the whole rear section behind the front seats are the same elevated height then you might get away with just shortening the frame. Flipping the frame section wasn't that big of a deal. Just be sure you measure everything right. One thing to watch out for... The DMV! I don't know how your state handles things like this but this is how Arizona does. I was supposed to get dismantling titles/permits BEFORE I took everything apart. Because I didn't and because the angle iron braces used to weld the frame back together covered the ONLY spot on the Dodge frame where the VIN is I had to get a vehicle sureity bond before they would give me a new title.



Bruce