Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 180 v/s 215 pump when upgrading?

[Blacksdieselhp]

Whats the differences in the 180hp and 215 hp pumps? I have a 97 automatic and was gonna put #10 plate, injectors, 3000 gsk's and delivery valves, but was wandering how big of a difference in hp would there be with this setup between a 180 and 215 pump. if its a bg difference, I may swap it out for a 215. Thanks for your help.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

A 180 pump is a good one and a good one to sell on the TDR but it's in a different world than a 215. Any 215 pump as long as it is in good shape is worth a good bit of money and I'd buy as many as I could get my hands on.



Jim

 

[WDixon27]

theres a 215 on ebay right now, under 100k mile if i remember correct

 

[RJPotts]

Mr. Fulmer is correct, the 215 is a different animal than the 180. But you don't really need a 215 to make serious power. I know of quite a few people in the 550+ range that have 180's and they aren't really close to the limit of that pump. Just this past weekend at Jeff Garmon's "shop day" someone was talking about a 800hp 180 pumped truck with room to go.

If you really want to go big get a 30mm pump from one of the big distributors. I heard Scheid's pump is the Caddy among the Kias as far as big pumps go. Not cheap though.

-R. J.

 

[JDailey]

I'd just pull that 180 off and take it to a good pump shop. Have them calibrate it and set the fuel and rpm where you want it. It's about the same money to set it on the stand as it is to buy a plate(atleast my pump guy is) and the results aren't even comparable.

 

[Reb.B]

The diferenece in the 215 to the 180 is in the barrel and plunger. Both pumps have the same cam, which meens they both have the same "fill time". The 215 has a different cut on the helix and in some ways will advance itself through the rpm scale. The p 7100 has no mechanical advancing mechanism, but the cut on the helix is what you want. Piers' stupid pump has the same sort of cut in his pump. You really need this shape for high horsepower.

 

[Reb.B]

Hey black's diesel, when you gonna send me that pull start solenoid you prommissed, that was supposed to come with that 215 pump you sold me?

 

[Cooker]

The diferenece in the 215 to the 180 is in the barrel and plunger. Both pumps have the same cam, which meens they both have the same "fill time". The 215 has a different cut on the helix and in some ways will advance itself through the rpm scale.

Piers has said the cam is different also.

The 887 or 913 pumps that came off the 96-98. 5 5 spd trucks were the best pump to turn into a race pump. They have a better cam, 181 del valves, lighter governor assembly & the helix is a better design than the older pumps.

I would agree though that the helix is the most important difference between the two.

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Reb B. Not sure what your talking about. Refresh my memory please. Anyway, I'm really just looking to make around 450-500 hp, but I'll be using the truck mainly for towing, so I don't wanna go too crazy. its just a work truck. I've never had a 180 hp pumped truck myself, so I wasn't sure what I was dealing with. So with 370 injectors, 3000 gsk's, DV's and a fairly big turbo(probably HTB2/64 or 66) what kind of hp should that yield? Ad what size DV's should I go with?

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Oh, and also, Can someone tell me something about the plug on the front of the 7100? I've talked to a few people who changed the plug and they claimed they gained about 40hp. Does nyone have the cummins part # for the plug?

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Oh, and also, Can someone tell me something about the plug on the front of the 7100? I've talked to a few people who changed the plug and they claimed they gained about 40hp. Does nyone have the cummins part # for the plug?

It works because the rack will bottom out in the stock cap before it will hit the pin at 21mm of rack travel, but all of this is after you get the AFC working right to get it that far. The AFC is a good piece of equipment if you know how to manpulate it to work for you. Go to pump shop and get the cap, it goes on a Mack with a 7100.



The cams are different between the 180's and 215's, that's why a 215 makes a good race pump, all you have to do is add a plate, 4k's and 13mm's.



Jim

 

[Reb.B]

the cams are not different between 180 and 215 pumps. Its the cut on the helix. The stupid pump has a cut cam. The bosch part number on the 215 and 180 are the same for the cam. The cam in the 175 and the 160 don't have the fill time, they are different. Blacks Diesel, you sold a 215 pump on EBAY that pictured a pull start solenoid and when it was delivered not solenoid came, you said that it was bad so you just pulled it off. You said you had a whole pile of them and i said to send me one anyway, ..... still waiting. a year now.

 

[Cooker]

the cams are not different between 180 and 215 pumps.

So why would Piers lie to the TDR readers?



Reb, not trying to discredit what you are saying but I cannot beleive that Piers would spread misinformation about a P-Pump.

 

[Reb.B]

Not sure what you are trying to say, but here we go again. 180 and 215 cams are the same. Piers' stupid pump is a 160 and/or 175 pump with the cam cut for more fill time and different barrels, plungers and DV's. Go to your local pump shop and look up the numbers if you don't believe me.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

If all of this is true then there is no need in buying a new pump, just take your 180 or 215 and add the 13mm's.



I know that a 215 with 13mm's will scream.



Jim

 

[Cooker]

Not sure what you are trying to say,

I was just saying Piers has posted on the TDR that the cams are different between the 180 and the 215 and I think Piers comments are generally well respected and accepted as the truth.

 

[Woodenhead]

Not trying to get in the middle of this but here's a bit of reading. link

 

[Reb.B]

Well Jim, you are not to far off. I've had this coversasion with Joe D. after he had sold Sickly. Take it for what it is worth,, . . Piers grinds his cams, they run awesome over 4K and have a huge amount of fill time, they look like a small block chevy cam, Joe when he ran his 13mm pump used the 215 cam saying that he was scared to grind the hardened surface of the cam because it might wear. Now take it for what its worth. Back when Joe was selling pumps and saying that the 215 was king i wanted to know why. I dug all though the bosch numbers. The 180 and the 215 have the same cam number. The cut on the helix is different. I asked Piers if there was a diffence in the cam and he said that the 215 and 180 are very similiar, but the 160 and 175 had very little fill time, and his race cam was designed to get all the fuel in that it could. It revs much better than a 215 or 180 cam. I have 30,000 miles on Piers' pump cam with no problems. Now, i would really love to have a Piers' cam in a 215 pump, but its probably not worth the effort or the expense. I'm not going to say anything further because i don't want to step on anybodies feet. Don't believe what anybody says (including me), go out and check the numbers yourself. All of this is old news anyways, ... we need to find out what is the difference in the 305hp cp3, the 325hp cp3, the 425hp cp3, and the 8. 3 or L10 cp3. This is what new and interesting, and i don't think many people have the answer for this yet.

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Well, thats why I don't post on here very much anymore. it always turns into an argument instead of help from someone who knows. There used to be some good info on here. I don't know what happened. I'll just call Piers or Van haisley and see what I need to do. SHould have done that anyway. thanks for the input from the guys trying to help.

 

[Cooker]

I'm sorry you don't feel these post contribute to your question. Part of your question was:

Whats the differences in the 180hp and 215 hp pumps?

Reb says the cams are the same Piers says they are not. IMHO this is an important difference. I personally would like to know the absolute truth about this question.



Either way the 215 pump is the perferred perfomance pump and the superiority of the 215 pumps has been discussed dozens of times on the TDR.



If you want 450-500HP the 215 will make it much easier to get there.



Next you will have to find out how easy it will be to produce a tow rig out of a single charger 12v with 450-500 usable HP.