19.5 Wheels vs. 20's

[WAckerman]

I've been looking at wheel options for my SRW 3500 for a couple years now, but now that I have a 5th wheel, I think I need to make a decision. I'm not pulling very heavy (about 1500# pin weight), but coming down a couple passes here in Utah, I could really feel how squirrly (sp?) the stock BFG Rugged Trails are, especially in the corners.



So the other day I was in a local Les Schwab store talking to the manager about prices on the Vision type 81 wheels. He told me that if I was to go to a 20" wheel and the Toyo Open Country MT in a 275/65r20 that my ride would be much better than with the 19. 5 Visions. He claimed that the Toyo MT is the strongest carcass tire on the market, with a "E" load rating. So I asked about the Toyo AT's and he claimed they were not built as well as the MT's. He also claimed that he would be able to make me a much better deal on the LT tires and rims, because he doesn't have very much room to deal on the 19. 5 stuff.



Now, I'm not a big fan of mud type tires. I don't like the road noise and I've never seen a set get very good milage out of them. So I'm torn. I had almost decided to go with the Vision 81's and Michelin XDE2+'s in a 265/70r19. 5. The overall size of each of these tires are pretty similar. About 34" tall x 10. 4-11" wide. What are the real world milages I can expect out of these two tires? 30k on the MT's vs. 75k on the Michelins? I don't know!



My questions are 1) is what he's saying about the Toyo AT's and MT's true? and 2) if the AT's are not as well made as the MT's, which way would the TDR crowd go? and 3) how much better of a ride would the 20" wheels provide?



Thanks for the help guys.

 

[HBarlow]

Tire salesmen are from the same mold as car salesmen.

Your Dodge came equipped with LT tires in LRE with an aspect ratio of 80. My advice is stick with truck tires similar to the OEM.

 

[jelag]

I have switched to 19. 5" on all my trucks... for the simple reason of cost per mile...

We owned a F550 that we ran 225/75/19. 5" tires... we got close to 100K per set and used new Bridgestone rib tires on the front and the same recap as UPS uses here in Spokane... an all season bandag cap...

We've never had a blow out... and now run this on 4 trucks... as I remember we paid $235 or so for the fronts and around $95 for the retreads...

No matter if you go to the 19. 5 or the 20 inch tire expect a very harsh ride... to get the tire life, mileage and MPG out of these tires you need to keep them inflated and they ride rougher than the stock tires and I can only assume the 20's are the same... Remember that under inflated tires get hot and fail, and these truck tires aren't designed to run low air pressure... I have even had a set studded to use in the winter on one of our trucks that see's mountain passes all the time... since we have a DOT # when the chain sign is out we still have to chain... but the rest of the time we do well...

BTW we sold the F550 with 500K miles and must have close to 100K on the 08 5500... guess I should look some day. .

All our trucks have plain steel wheels, which were provided for us by one of our vendors. .

I'm pleased with the results and the extra perceived safety. . as these tires easily support over 1,400 lbs extra per tire...

Hope this helps and gives you our thoughts. .

 

[fest3er]

... I'm not pulling very heavy (about 1500# pin weight), but coming down a couple passes here in Utah, I could really feel how squirrly (sp?) the stock BFG Rugged Trails are, especially in the corners. ...

Squirrelly, FWIW.



What Dan Richter said about stock tires and 19. 5's 9-10 years ago still stands today. 19. 5" load range F and G commercial truck tires yield better mileage, better life, better traction, and incredibly better handling than do regular LT tires. Why? Two steel sidewall plies and 4 steel tread plies.



I've been running 225/70/19. 5s on my 2500 for 9 years now. And I simply cannot go back. The truck drives and handles like a sports car. It isn't mushy. It doesn't wallow. It isn't unsure in curves. It handles twisty mountain roads almost as nicely as a Formula 350 on Gatorbacks would. And traction is good on dry roads and wet. (Though freshly wet roads with lots of vehicle oil on them are slick regardless. )



If anything, my truck has always ridden smoother, more softly with the 19. 5's on it. That may be partly because I've run them with somewhat lower pressure to maintain decent tread contact with the ground. My plain steel wheels are an early 6" model from Rickson Truck Accessories. Today, I would get the 7" wheel to encourage the tread to sit flatter on the ground (beads are farther apart); then I'd run somewhat more normal pressures.



I got 110K miles out of my first set: Yoko TY303s, 40K from the second set: Bridgestone M714s, and pushing 50K on the third set: Hankook DH01s. (Part of the poor life is due to the suspension being wore out. ) MPG-wise, I never noticed any real difference, even though the 19. 5 tire/wheel weighs at least 25# more than the OEM 245/75/16, if not 50# more.



Put a 20" and a 19. 5" tire next to each other. Flex the sidewall of the 19. 5, if you can. Then see how much the 20" tire's sidewall flexes in comparison. The 19. 5" should have a rock-solid sidewall. If the 20" flexes more like a 16" sidewall, you know how it will handle. And if it flexes more like the 19. 5", you'll have to guess how nicely it will handle.



The pin weight on the truck is only one aspect of towing. Another is the dynamic mass of the trailer that either throws the truck side-to-side or prevents the truck from moving side-to-side, depending on the road. The stiffer the sidewall is, the more sure and true the truck will track.



Generally, unless you are buying for looks, you don't really want or need more than a 225/70/19. 5. There are those who deride them as 'skinny-a--ed tires', but they always fall behind in the curves; unladen, my truck's usually good for at least 15 over the curves' warning speeds. If you want looks, you can get 245s and 265s in the 19. 5; but they weigh a lot more and may well give a much harder ride.



If you want assured handling with your 5th wheel, get the 19. 5's, unless you can see that the 20" sidewall are just as good. But since the 20" is an LT tire, I have my doubts.

 

[hammersley]

He is correct about the

"..... Toyo MT is the strongest carcass tire on the market... ... . " It simply is..... and they make em in a zillion sizes... ... .

 

[CUMMINZ]

It pleases me to hear anyone say they are wanting to go from a stock 17 to a 19. 5... I like my dually with 19. 5s but a SRW with a set of aluminum wheels and 19. 5s is about as good as you can get to tow an RV. :-laf:-laf

I would for sure go with a wider wheel than 6".



Good luck.

 

[HBarlow]

Are all 19. 5" tires speed-limited like the new Ram 4500/5500 cab and chassis trucks? Dodge says the reason the new cab and chassis trucks are governed at 76mph is due to the tires.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

Are all 19. 5" tires speed-limited like the new Ram 4500/5500 cab and chassis trucks? Dodge says the reason the new cab and chassis trucks are governed at 76mph is due to the tires.

<table width="90%" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="15%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">L</td> <td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">75 mph</td> <td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">120 km/h</td> <td width="45%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Off-Road & Light Truck Tires</td> </tr> <tr><td width="15%">M</td><td width="20%">81 mph</td><td width="20%">130 km/h</td><td width="45%">
</td></tr><tr><td width="15%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">N</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">87 mph</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">140km/h</td><td width="45%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Temporary Spare Tires</td></tr><tr><td width="15%">P</td><td width="20%">93 mph</td><td width="20%">150 km/h</td><td width="45%">
</td></tr><tr><td width="15%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Q</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">99 mph</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">160 km/h</td><td width="45%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Studless & Studdable Winter Tires</td></tr><tr><td width="15%">R</td><td width="20%">106 mph</td><td width="20%">170 km/h</td><td width="45%">H. D. Light Truck Tires</td></tr><tr><td width="15%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">S</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">112 mph</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">180 km/h</td><td width="45%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Family Sedans & Vans</td></tr><tr><td width="15%">T</td><td width="20%">118 mph</td><td width="20%">190 km/h</td><td width="45%">Family Sedans & Vans</td></tr><tr><td width="15%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">U</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">124 mph</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">200 km/h</td><td width="45%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">
</td></tr><tr><td width="15%">H</td><td width="20%">130 mph</td><td width="20%">210 km/h</td><td width="45%">Sport Sedans & Coupes</td></tr><tr><td width="15%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">V</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">149 mph</td><td width="20%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">240 km/h</td><td width="45%" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Sport Sedans, Coupes & Sports Cars</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[CUMMINZ]

My Smarty allows me to set the speed limiter on my 6. 7 to 175mph or so. I like that just in case I need to outrun the DOT guys. :-laf

 

[HBarlow]

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="90%" align=center><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="15%">L</TD> <TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">75 mph</TD> <TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">120 km/h</TD> <TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="45%">Off-Road & Light Truck Tires</TD> </TR> <TR><TD width="15%">M</TD><TD width="20%">81 mph</TD><TD width="20%">130 km/h</TD><TD width="45%">

</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="15%">N</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">87 mph</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">140km/h</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="45%">Temporary Spare Tires</TD></TR><TR><TD width="15%">P</TD><TD width="20%">93 mph</TD><TD width="20%">150 km/h</TD><TD width="45%">

</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="15%">Q</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">99 mph</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">160 km/h</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="45%">Studless & Studdable Winter Tires</TD></TR><TR><TD width="15%">R</TD><TD width="20%">106 mph</TD><TD width="20%">170 km/h</TD><TD width="45%">H. D. Light Truck Tires</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="15%">S</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">112 mph</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">180 km/h</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="45%">Family Sedans & Vans</TD></TR><TR><TD width="15%">T</TD><TD width="20%">118 mph</TD><TD width="20%">190 km/h</TD><TD width="45%">Family Sedans & Vans</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="15%">U</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">124 mph</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">200 km/h</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="45%">

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="15%">H</TD><TD width="20%">130 mph</TD><TD width="20%">210 km/h</TD><TD width="45%">Sport Sedans & Coupes</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="15%">V</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">149 mph</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="20%">240 km/h</TD><TD bgColor=#e0e0e0 width="45%">Sport Sedans, Coupes & Sports Cars</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Thanks. If all LT tires are speed-rated @ 75 mph I wonder why Dodge speed governs the 4500/5500s at 76 mph but the 3500s at 105 or more.

I've always been careful never to exceed governed top speed with any the three Dodges I've owned. That was 112 with the '01 w/3. 54 gears, 105 with the '06 and current one, both with 4. 11 gears.

 

[WAckerman]

Thanks guys,

I'm not really buying for looks, but I would like to run a slightly taller tire just to get my cruise RMP's down a little. I'd really like the Michelin XDE2+ in a 245/70r19. 5, but they don't make that size... I'll probably just have to keep looking for a 245 series tire that I like. I've sort of been looking for a little more aggressive open shoulder rib tire, and not a traction tire.



Neal, I know what you mean about people dogging the skinny tires. My wife is one of them! I don't like tires that throw crap all down the side of the truck though! I run my stock tires at 80 psi all the time, plus the original owner of my truck had an extra leaf added to the rear springs, so I know what a crappy ride is like, but it's a truck and I don't mind it.



Anyone is the SLC area running 19. 5's that wouldn't mind giving me a ride so I can see what it's like?

 

[EricBu12]

My Tires are close to what you want. . I have the Micheline XDE-MS 245/70R 19. 5" "F" rated 12 ply. . Rated at 4080# @ 95 PSI..... it is the same diameter but a little skinnier than a 285/75-16" tire. (for Comparison)



Just get the Rims from Somewhere, then Go to a Michelin Dealer and Order the tires. . I did this with my Ricksons Forged Aluminum Rims.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayalbum.php?&userid=3978&albumid=17495





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Tire on left is the afore mentioned 285/75-16". . Notice the slightly skinnier look.



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[WAckerman]

Thanks Eric,

It was seeing your setup at the Iceburg Drive-In that got me thinking about switching to the 19. 5's. I've been pretty cash strapped lately, but I think this is definatly in my future.



What do you think of the ride with the 19. 5's? How much of a change was it from stock?

 

[EricBu12]

The ride is def. Stiffer especially if you leave them aired up. . The benefit of them aired up when unhooked is the truck rolls very well so you get better mileage. . . I have over 50K on the tires and it seems to be half worn.

 

[Road Dog]

A lot of aftermarket wheels are all about bling and are only rated for 2,200 pounds. Completely inadequate for a truck and I'm guessing that most 20" rims fall into that category.

(A friend switched from BFG ATs to Toyo Open Country MT for the higher weight rating and they are a much better tire for high loads. )

 

[WAckerman]

Road Dog,

I agree. I was surprised how many manufacturers website were missing weight ratings in the specs when I was looking around. I have often wondered how much it would take to break some of these spindly looking wheels that are popular today.

 

[Matt400]

Road Dog,

I was surprised how many manufacturers website were missing weight ratings in the specs when I was looking around.

Most all 8 lug wheels are rated 3000 or more, you may have to ask to get that info and it should be stamped on the back side of the wheel.



You don't want the MT's, yes they are beefy but take a look at the rubber contact on the road. That design thread will offer up some squirm where road meets lugs even if you have them at 80 psi. Least thats what I believe from the set I had. Plus you said you don't like road noise. They are not real noisy but not quiet by any means.



If you are set on 20's for the shorter sidewall and want more height then look to the Nitto Dura-Grappler in 275/65/20 Its rated at 3750 lbs.

It won't outlast a 19. 5 thats for sure but that tire is about as close to a commercial grade tire as you can get IMO. Absolutely love the performance of the 17" version on my truck.



In fact if you can deal with your stock wheels why not go for their 285/75/17 rated at 3970 lbs. The difference of those to your BFG's would just amaze you. Click here: Nitto Tire - High Performance Tires for Car and Truck Enthusiasts

 

[WAckerman]

Matt,

I have looked at the Nitto Dura Grappler, but somewhere, someone told me that they were made by Toyo and I thought if that was the case, then they wouldn't be any better than the Toyo AT (not that the Toyo is a bad tire).



I don't have any problems with the stock wheels, in fact I'd love to not have to spend the money on new wheels. I guess that I assumed (Yes, I know what that means!) that any 17" tire wouldn't be any better than the stock tires in relation to the sidewall squirm. That's what got me looking at the Vision Wheels and the 19. 5 tires.

 

[Matt400]

I also ran the Toyo AT's on an 03. The Dura's I have now are superior for highway stability, not as much snow traction as the AT's but they work for me and we get 3 feet each season. I tow with 2000 pin weight. I have yet to read anyone that has them being less than satisfied.



My 03 came with the trail T/A's you have now and my 05 came with the Michelins, completely different stability feel on the highway. Hate to put your tires down but they are pretty bad, nothing to do with the 17" size IMO. Those were bad right out of the mold. :-laf

 

[WAckerman]

No offense taken here on putting down the tires. I didn't like them from the first day in drove in the rain with them on. Since then, the sidewalls have checked so bad that I was too nervous to even hook up to the fifth wheel with them on. I mean I had complete chunks of the sidewall popping off, and some pieces were and large as a nickel! I was able to pick up a set of take-offs (wheels and tires) which were the BFG's again, but they were in much better shape than what I was taking off. So I'm running those right now, and I figure I'll get through the winter on them, but for next years camping season I will have to have new tires.