1994 Detroit Series 60...

[Rescue Ram]

We recently had a major failure with one of our Detroit Series 60's. It is a '94 coupled with an allison. A couple of the rods were bent and one of the pistons was in rough shape. I don't work on this particular truck, so I am not too familiar with its history, other than it had an out of frame in '96 because it was filled with gasoline.



Here is my question... Did Detroit have electronics advanced enough to monitor and record engine data over a period of days/weeks? The shop claims the most recent failure was due to regular overspeed conditions, and that they determined this from the information stored in the ECM...



I did not speak with the shop directly, this is all second hand. However, being that it is a 1994, and our "fleet manager" doesn't know an oil dipstick from a hole in the ground, it seems to me that he may have had some smoke blown up his skirt, or he did not accurately relay or understand the information. I don't know enough about Detroits to be sure. I also don't trust this shop based on past experience. Any thoughts?

 

[bmoeller]

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/Support/On-Highway/Service_Support/customer_support_center/index.asp

 

[Rescue Ram]

I appreciate it. I think we got suckered, too. This particular shop is famous for that. I am not sure how an overspeed could have occurred, unless it somehow got forced into a gear... but the allison in it is fairly sophisticated... I don't think it would allow that to happen. I am willing to bet that the damage was due to cylinder wash. There is a particular driver at that station who refuses to high idle on scene. He says it "wastes gas". That's the same rocket scientist that filled it with gasoline 9 years ago. :-laf :-laf

 

[MMeier]

That's the same rocket scientist that filled it with gasoline 9 years ago. And he's still with you ??

 

[Rescue Ram]

That's the same rocket scientist that filled it with gasoline 9 years ago. And he's still with you ??

What can I say...

 

[Rescue Ram]

Neat plate, aseigworth. Where in PA are you? I spent summers in Pgh while my grandparents were living.

 

[tgee]

All S-60s have ecms, '94 DDEC III ecms will tell you if and when an overspeed happened, also highest rpm, also if jakes were on when it happened. The ecm will tell you how many times it happened too. You can only clear these codes with a diag tool. Ask this shop for a printout of this info. Overspeed will cause damage to the piston when the valves hit it, but to have a bent rod is unusual, having several is more so. Excess idle, in my experience, usually just causes premature cylinder wear and dirty oil. Your ecm will also tell you idle percentage, PTO idle percentage ( high idle, or VSG idle ). The higher the idle rpms, the better, cylinder temps are higher, less unburned fuel.

 

[tgee]

What kind of Allison? The electronic ones should prevent a downshift if input speed is too high. The older hydraulic trannys will do this too. But if the trans is in high gear, your going down hill too fast, Allison wont unlock the converter to save the engine.

 

[CRHardie]

Hope this helps As tgee said the ecm will record over speed,rpm and how many times. It seems 1994 was abad year for series 60 My guess is you had a piston break (they are 2 piece) caused by coolant comeing thru pin holes in the liner They were also known for dropping valves but yours sounds like a piston Probably put picture windows in the block too. Keep up on coolant condition on Detroits If they dont have a coolant filter install one All the detroits weve had go bad show signs of poor coolant maintanance. The ones I got early in life and took care of have gone past 700000 miles before the bull gear brought them to a halt But thats another Detroit story

 

[Rescue Ram]

Thanks for the information. I am surprised that the ECM on this thing was advanced enough to record data... But what do ya know. I learn something new every day.

 

[MPalachuk]

The computer was smart enough to monitor fuel temp and it would put more fuel in to make up for warmer fuel temp. Also they will have a override switch for when the computer shuts down the engine, It lets you make the engine run for a few seconds each time you hit it. If someone keeps hitting it to drive it some place it will count how many times it was pushed.

 

[tgee]

There were issues with pre May '95 S-60 pistons breaking, the dome ears would break where the pin goes through. It was blamed on improper machining, loose fit of the pin bushing. RescueRam said it was overhauled in '96, which means it got updated pistons. All S-60 pistons are two piece, they use crosshead style or trunk style pistons. Pin holes in the cylinder liners is caused by coolant cavitation, tiny bubbles that hit the liner and explode, eventually boring through. From my experience, this problem usually shows up as oil in the coolant, or compression in the coolant. I've never seen this cause a broken piston. I have seen it cause a hydrolock though. The coolant conditioner that adds nitrates is supposed to prevent cavitation. You need to check nitrate levels often, or add a need release coolant filter. This applies to any diesel engine that has a wet liner, coolant that comes in contact with the liner, not just Detroits!

 

[tgee]

The computer was smart enough to monitor fuel temp and it would put more fuel in to make up for warmer fuel temp. Also they will have a override switch for when the computer shuts down the engine, It lets you make the engine run for a few seconds each time you hit it. If someone keeps hitting it to drive it some place it will count how many times it was pushed.

Detroits ecm moniters fuel temp, mainly to help determine fuel mileage. I believe something like any temp over 100 degrees, you start to loose power. i think for every 10 over 100, its 2%. Hitting the override buttun will show in the data as abuse control, I believe.

 

[tgee]

Detroit says to replace the bullgear at 750000.

 

[Proram]

When i was Running my big wrecker, i Hauled for Penske leasing, if they had a DD-60 they couldnt handle it would go to DDA to be looked at, the tech at DDA told me they can see EVERY event that happended to that motor from the day it was started. IE: overspeed, oil press, if it was ran low on oil or ran hot. and that was in the early 90's



Scott

 

[Cigar John]

DDEC was first installed on the Silver 92 two strokes to meet emission standards and improve fuel milage(Fuel Squeezer engines),don't know if they had data record back then.

 

[tgee]

Detroit came out with electronic fuel injection in 1985, with the 92s, known as DDEC I. The Fuel Squeezer term was actually a term for a mechanical injected 92, I believe came out in early 90s. DDEC Is were not too sophisticated, couldnt tell you fuel mileage, or when certain codes were stored. You could erase codes by disconnecting the power for 15 seconds. DDEC II changed some of that in 1989.

 

[tgee]

Somebody corrected me, fuel squeezers were out as early as 1983, we had them known as " TT-, torque-tailored " , They were bus engines, painted red, they were considered silver 92s. DDEC II came out in 1988.