1st gen KDP?

[edgeman]

Im going to have a KDP jig party soon. My neighbor has a 1990 CTD, can any one tell me if the 1st gen trucks are at risk from this thing? If they are not at risk he dosnt need to attend our party. Thanks in advance for any info. Edgeman

 

[Tim1]

I just did my 92 and it only moved 1\8". May not of gone anymore, but I was in ther to do it ,so I did. All 12 valves without the improved inner housing are at risk, so it may just be a piece of mind thing, your choice. The tab is a little different than those for the second gen because of a raised boss in there. Not a big modification though. Tim

 

[AlK]

Tim1,

I have also been thinking about doing something about the KDP. When you did yours, how much of the front end did you have to dismantle. I saw one thread for the Second Gen trucks where the front bumper, grill, inter-cooler and the radiator were removed. Hopefully, on the first gen this is not necessary. Any information that you can provide would be appreciated.

---

Al

 

[RDBuck]

KDP?

What are you guys talking about?

 

[racing]

RDBuck

KDP = Killer Dowel Pin This is a pin that sits by the timing chain that will actually fall out of its little hole and basically destroy the front of the motor. I personally have never herd of this happening on a 1st gen it seems to be rather bad from 94-97 trucks but it is perty cheep insurance considering it genrerally causes about 3k in damage



Hope this explains it for u RD

 

[boatpuller]

A guy at work had the KDP come out, 1993 approx 100Kmiles,

he got lucky , had an oil leak took it in to get it repaired and they found the pin stuck in the front timing cover, it got shot out like a bullet but only went 1/2 way through. Could have done major damage, he was lucky.



I'm on the Northwest list for the jig to drill it, any one done the CPFF fix to a first-gen?



Caleb

 

[Tim1]

Hey Al, the only things that I removed was the fan, and the fan schroud which just pops out very easy. No hoses, no grill work at all. It's really not a bad job at all. You have to bar the motor to get the crank damper off, but the barring tool is rather inexpensive. While your in there, locktite the bolts that you can see. Mine were rather loose, not that they were going anywhere. This is also a good time to check your timing while everything is visible. Also, when setting the air gap on the damper pickup, use a piece of brass or copper shim stock. Non-magnetic. Tim

 

[Paul Herioux]

Hey Edgeman, you get my PM?

Keep us posted on the KDP party, sounds like it will be the closest to home.

 

[boatpuller]

Tim1,

Did you pull the front of the engine apart or just do the drilling and placing the set screw with the jig to hold the pin in?

Thanks,

Caleb

 

[Tim1]

caleb, I pulled the timing cover off and tabbed it. Not a real big problem at all, if you have any trouble doing it that way, e-mail me and I will help if i can. I put the seal in the cover before i reinastalled the cover,just cut some 5\16 allthread to use as a guide for the cover to start. I know it metric, but I just snugged it enough to guide the cover! Tim

 

[cdrider]

This KDP problem has me a little concerned, but it seems like a lot of work if the pin is NOT coming loose. Has anyone tried looking in under the cover with a flexible shaft scope like the Pro Vision? I wonder if it would be possible to remove the oil filler tube and then thread the scope tube in for a look? If anyone has tried this, Please post the results ! Thanks

 

[Mel Fuelling]

cdrider,

yes, I tried a scope. No, you can't get where you need to be,

there isn't room.

Tim1,

I agree that the front crank seal needs to go in the cover before

installing the front cover. There is only 5" of space between the

radiator core and the front cover, not enough to swing a hammer.

I used the Cummins clear plastic seal starter to guide the cover &

seal onto the crank snout with my left hand, then started an upper right cover bolt with my right. What surprised me was that

the clear plastic seal guide didn't go on in behind the seal.



My dowel pin was still 3mm down in the bore of the timing cover, but it drove in 6mm more before it was seated solidly in the block.

Then I used a small gouge punch to raise 3 good welts on the

inside of the dowel pin bore, using locktite blue as backup. My

wife's 5" cosmetic mirror was an invaluble tool on this project.



I was able to get to the camshaft thrust plate bolts through the

spokes of the cam gear and to some of the timing cover bolt heads hidden behind gears. None took over 1/8th turn with my

torque wrench, so I didn't pull them and locktite them. Some of

the timing cover bolts, I had to grind down a 10mm boxend to

make it thin enough to get through and behind some of the gears.

I turned the engine over with a home made 3/8"pin spanner

wrench engaging two of the three holes in the cam gear.



Besides looking and thinking, I had two additional parts that

took longer than anticipated. 1) The front seal is hard to get in

the cover unless the cover is fully supported under the seal bore.

2) I need a picture or diagram of all bolt locations behind gears

so that I don't spend as much time rolling the engine over and

looking with the mirror. I spent about 6 1/2 hours on this first

one, but I might be able to do the next one in 3 hours or so.



One interesting consequence of this project is that I got a lot

of dirt out of the H Balancer making my engine noticeably smoother, and the irritating buzz that mine had from 1,000-

1,800rpm is about 1/3 as loud from1,000-1,300 where it changes

into a pleasant drone instead of the buzz. When I have the time,

I want to bolt a heavy bar(maybe 2" X 3/8") across the front of

the timing cover with an adjustable preload screw to see if it will

affect the lower rpm buzz or drone.



Mel

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hey Mel, what is "... the Cummins clear plastic seal starter " you refer too?



Thanks, Bob

 

[Tim1]

Hey bob, the seal comes with the plastic starter that goes on the end of the crank to get the seal over the edge without damaging the seal, works real good. When seal is on,just pull the plastic out. Mel, sounds like you did a very thorough job on the dowell pin. I used a small press with plates and pipe pieces to put the seal in and yes, it has to go in straight. Tim

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

This weekend at the GLTDR bomb session we used CPFF's KDP jig to fix the KDP problem on 7 trucks. It's a bone simple way to fix it and doesn't require removing the timing cover (unless your pin has moved a good bit already). I did mine but I was getting pulled away all the time to help with other stuff. I would estimate that I could have gotten it done in 1. 5 hrs uninterrupted the first time. After the first one you could knock em out in less than an hour. There's 10 jig sets floating around the country, look in the 12v forum for information on how to hook up with one.

 

[Mel Fuelling]

Steve,

I'm sure from what I've read that CPFF's KDP jigs are a quick way

to immobilize dowel pins when employed by an experienced 5. 9

mechanic. Because this is my first 5. 9(2yrs), I am not as interested in the speed of the process as in the certainty of the

process. I am not familiar enough with these engines to feel

comfortable using the KDP jig when there may be loose bolts, or

perhaps a previous hasty repair leaving damaged parts inside the

timing cover. Any object, KDP, bolt that enters or comes loose

inside the timing cover will probably cause catastrophic damage.

I run without fan & shroud when the temps are below 60 degrees

F; I had a seeping front seal; so it probably took me an

extra 20 minutes to remove and replace the front cover. It took me over an hour to roll the motor over and check for loose bolts

under all the gears. I probably spent at least an extra 1/2 hour

admiring the excellent wear pattern on the gear teeth. I consider

the extra time I spent taking the front cover off, replacing the

front seal, and tightening loose bolts to be time productively

spent and that I didn't miss anything within reach. (as long as

I don't throw my shoulder out patting myself on the back. )



Tim1,

When are you going to tell us all about the press you used on

your front seal? Is it an arbor press? It sounds like an improve-

ment over my 2# hammer and seal driver striking the Cummins

seal driver(and front cover locator).

 

[Tim1]

Mel, the press that I use for everything is just a cheapie from Harbor Freight that stands on the floor and is basically a captured bottle jack with a adjustable up-down pin table affair. Cost about 150. 00 and does everything. Most of the time as you well know, is spent supporting and figuring out the right tools to use to push with. On this paticular seal, the front axle nut wrench is just the right size. The housing has to be elevated so as to push in the right spot, but no problems at all. I agree with you on the satifaction that I get seeing alls well inside when i'm in there. Have been busing restoring a old harley so I've not done anything to the truck lately,summers coming tho. Tim