Archived 2001- 24v 70,000 miles won't start when hot

[DJW]

Starts fine every time when cold, first kick, always have, first time trouble of any kind, no codes showing just the normal run-through when checking. Starter works fine, before and after replacing LarryB's starter kit. Vehicle total stock,never towed, all light duty use, did smell as if an electrical wire got too hot, prior to non start condition but could not trace the source as was stopped in traffic at time, and it might have been a near vehicle, as no smell since hot or cold. Engine has never coughed, stumbled or anything since new. I replaced the starter contacts to see if it cleared the trouble but still no start when hot, and showing no code numbers when correctly cycling key, just the usual normal run through. Fires right up when cold and runs great. Puzzling

 

[FYarcho]

So I gather when you say it wont start, that the starter isn't turning, when you turn the key. Sounds like a bad starter. Sometimes they can be affected by the heat. I would double check all the connections to the starter. When I had this problem once, when it happened I would tap the starter with a hammer and it would then work. If thats the case then you have a bad starter.

 

[DJW]

Thanks for the fast reply, however the starter is in excellent shape, as this is the first time I have had any trouble starting the engine hot or cold, engine spins over fine that is why I'm so puzzled. Spins the same before and after Larry'B starter kit, old contacts still in serviceable condition, but I thought perhaps they may contribute to hot engine starting problem, therefore the change. Old contacts showed no sign of arcing, just worn mechanically. A friend checked out the starter with a tester and it checks out fine, but as he is a gasoline mechanic and leaving for a vacation, did not have time to pursue the problem, probably it's a relay, as otherwise, perhaps it wouldn't run well at all. Have a happy 4th. of July

 

[FYarcho]

Ok Now I understand. I was a little confused when you said it wouldnt start, then you mentioned the starter. Well you got me on this one!!!! Sorry Im not better help.

 

[Mundgyver]

Pull the shrouds around the steering wheel and check all the wiring, especially the big red one. Dodge did not put in a long enough harness for the tilt wheel and when you tilt the wheel up and down the connector wiring cracks/breaks right at the back of the connectors.



Voice of experience here and Dodge replaced mine on warranty.



Also if you are driving a stick, check the clutch interlock switch for the start cycle. Not sure about automatics.

 

[keimmmo]

You say the truckk is stock... as in no pusher fuel pump to increase fuel pressure to the injection pump. Too much fuel pressure at startup will cause what you describe... been there.



Even if the fuel system IS stock, is the relay that just bumps the fuel pump before starting working correctly? If the stock pump runs too long before trying to start the motor it could cause the same problem.



Steve Keim

 

[DJW]

Thanks for the replies, the truck is now my son's and he has use of another, so at present he will wait untill his friend returns from vacation, to trace source of trouble. I printed Mundgyver's instructions for him to check. keimmmo I'll have him check the relay, he does have the Dodge service manual but no checking instruments,so therefore the wait. He is too busy at present to pay any attention to it, actually even Working today. The starter spins the engine like a Top, just won't start when hot, stone cold starts right up. Here's the kicker, the local ddeeeler offered to replace the starter for just under $1000, including $400 for Labor, said it was a long job, many parts to be removed to reach starter, he had it towed out of the place in a hurry. We took out the starter, replaced the contacts, and back cranking the engine in less than 1 and 1/2 hour and never done the job before. I should call up the dealer's service manager, and ask how often should I grease the exhaust pipe. Thanks to all.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Sounds like the syptoms of a gasser being flooded.

Try pushing the pedal part way to the floor when it won't start.

 

[DJW]

Sounds like the syptoms of a gasser being flooded.

Try pushing the pedal part way to the floor when it won't start.

Thanks for the advice, I gave my son the information but he says he'll leave it untill his mechanic friend comes back. It's a real puzzle as it has never failed to start on the first turn of the key, and never happened before, hot or cold. If we find the cause I'll post the findings here, as it will certainly be of help to the membership.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

ACTUALLY, a 24 valve 2nd generation truck with the VP-44 is notorious for cracking an internal diaphragm - which then causes hard starting when the engine (and VP-44!) are hot - they'll start great when cold - but not hot - the fix is a new VP-44 - sorry...

 

[DJW]

ACTUALLY, a 24 valve 2nd generation truck with the VP-44 is notorious for cracking an internal diaphragm - which then causes hard starting when the engine (and VP-44!) are hot - they'll start great when cold - but not hot - the fix is a new VP-44 - sorry...

Thanks for the reply, if that condition exists would a code be shown? at present, hot or cold, no codes displayed on odmeter, just the usual 2 sets of lettering but no numbers.

 

[Missouri Mule]

My Freightliner has been doing this off and on for years. It recently started doing it again.

 

[DJW]

My son owns the Cummins now, and at present he's so busy working,plus he has use of a friend's truck, so he's content untill the mechanic comes back from vacation. I am very thankful for all the helpful advice on the posts, I told him to check the fuel connection to the vp44 (Satan's friend) (Bankrupt Alley) as suggested, also to remove electric connections to the engine, clean and apply dielectric grease. He has already disconected the two batteries to see if it made any difference, and as time permits check relays etc. and all electrical connections under the hood. Check, http://www.carpages.co.uk/toyota/toyota-avensis-part-1-02-03-05.asp for some interesting reading, note it's about 15 months old from first date of publication.

 

[csutton7]

classic symptom of the vp44 going out--save yourself the headache and order a new one---chris

 

[Missouri Mule]

DJW, Before forking out money for new injection pump try running fuel additive through it. Take it for a long drive.

I put Amsoil fuel additive in my Freigtliner drove it a hundred miles (part of my job) and it's starting like it should. I usaully put it in first of the year but I mite have to start putting in twice a year. Use the brand of your choice.

Hope it works.

 

[DJW]

Thanks for the advice regarding a fuel additive, I'm not sure if my son uses it, I''ll inform him to use some, as it will add to the lubricity to the fuel, so that would be a plus. For some reason since changing the starter,(although the original starter spun the engine with glee and satisfaction), it would not fire when hot, now it fires under any temperature condition. I'm thankful to all the members for their advice on such a mysterious problem, perhaps the original starter was diverting needed electrical current away from an essential component, thus causing a non start when hot problem. I have reminded my son of the VP44 (Achilles Heel reinvented?) problems.

 

[JLittle]

My 2k is doing the same thing, 2 weeks ago it just quit going down the road and then didnt want to start up, I let it cool down a couple hours and it started up, I drove it home, next day I drove it 30 miles and it did the same thing, so what Im finding out is the VP44 pump is messing up when hot, so your probalby like me you need a new VP? I just hate to spend that much money on something thats under the hood that you dont see much! let us know what you find out too!