2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission 2002, 2500 4x4 steering problem

[MZmiejko]

Hey guys, I am hoping someone has had my problem, or has some ideas for me. As I am out of them. My 02, 2500 4x4 extended cab with a 160,000 miles will not turn the steering wheel more than a 1/4 turn left or right before you have to force it, unless the truck is rolling. Then it turns fine. It drives perfectly with no binding once so ever. If the front tires are on ice or snow they will turn totally normal with out the truck moving. It has a 2inch leveling kit, with a BD adjustable trac bar like the ones sold in Geno's Garage. When the problem started I am unsure, as I bought the truck used and I did not notice it at first. I am not sure if it started after the trac bar or not. When I noticed the problem I thought with the mileage it could ues a steering box and a pump, and that would be my problem. I put an up gradded new box,with up gradded new pump and shaft by Borgeson from Geno's, but this did not fix the problem. After messing around I disconnected the track bar at the rear and it will turn with 1 finger, both ways with out the truck moving. With the leveling kit the control arms were too short and with the forward mounting of BD bar towards front bumper an inch, or an inch and a half as compared to the factory bar mount, the bar was binding a little bit. I had two adjustable lower arms, so I set them between a 1/2 and 3/4 inch longer than the stock arms and seems to be better for the track bar, but still will not turn unless the truck is moving. With the truck on stands you can turn the tires back and forth with your hands with out engine running no problem. It has to be in the track bar, but what? Axle joints, tie rod ends, track bar, steering box, pump,steering shaft, steering dampner all new. Upper and lower ball joints are newer, and greaseable. There is a BD steering box brace, but I tried it with out it, makes no differance. It is obviously binding some where, and it looks like the trac bar but why? Any ideas would be a help. Thanks Mark.

 

[AEdelheit]

Are you sure the axle wasn't just moving under the truck when you turned the wheel with the track bar off? It not uncommon for the steering to be stiff when not moving turning big tires, the track bar just holds the axle in place, there is really no way for it to bind sitting still. Id also check caster, if you have to much it will using the weight of the truck to recenter the wheels. Could also have gotten a bad pump or box.

 

[MZmiejko]

I am sure the axle was moving with trac bar off, but after the rear stopped moving the wheel felt like it should, turned very easy all the way each way. The caster was set at 2 different shops. I am a mechanic and I totally agree with you on the caster. I am sure it was set right as I know the shops are good. It only has 285 tires on it which are not THAT big. My 2004 has 35 inch tires and turns totally fine. I was thinking about a bad box or pump myself. The first pump I got was bad, they had to send me another one. But it was doing the exact same thing before I changed to the new parts, that is why I am not too sure the parts are bad. I am wondering if the geometry is a little off on the new bar. The stock bar has the tie rod end type ball and socket end and would move around 360 degrees. The BD bar has bushings and a steel sleave, it will only move up and down. It does not seem the rear will articulate enough and let the body roll as much as it did with the stock bar. I am wondering if that is causing too much force on the tires and acting like the caster issue we were talking about.

 

[MZmiejko]

I am sure the axle was moving with trac bar off, but after the rear stopped moving the wheel felt like it should, turned very easy all the way each way. The caster was set at 2 different shops. I am a mechanic and I totally agree with you on the caster. I am sure it was set right as I know the shops are good. It only has 285 tires on it which are not THAT big. My 2004 has 35 inch tires and turns totally fine. I was thinking about a bad box or pump myself. The first pump I got was bad, they had to send me another one. But it was doing the exact same thing before I changed to the new parts, that is why I am not too sure the parts are bad. I am wondering if the geometry is a little off on the new bar. The stock bar has the tie rod end type ball and socket end and would move around 360 degrees. The BD bar has bushings and a steel sleave, it will only move up and down. It does not seem the rear will articulate enough and let the body roll as much as it did with the stock bar. I am wondering if that is causing too much force on the tires and acting like the caster issue we were talking about.

 

[AEdelheit]

Hmmm, interesting, I know a couple 2nd gens running running the 3rd gen track bar setup with no issues. Have you been using the same brand of fluid? Maybe try Amsoil or Royal Purple to see if it makes a differnce, if the viscosity is off it could cause low pressure, kinda, maybe. I assumed you had bigger then 285's's, they should turn pretty easy! Another thing you might try is having someone turn the wheel with the truck running while you watch the front axle and steering components, see if you can spot an issue.

 

[MLee]

MZm how about filling your signature so we can see what you have. Kind of like diagnosing through a frosted glass. Not recommened to turn steering axle on dry pavment without moving/rolling anyway. With larger tires there is a lot of stress.

 

[MZmiejko]

I have had 3 different types of atf plus 4 in it. That is what dodge specs. But that is not a bad idea to try the high end stuff, I have been using synthic but not the real good stuff. I have had someone turn the wheel while I watch, but see nothing. MLee is right about turning the wheel without moving, but it is tuff to move around tight places with it the way it is. It is real tuff with the 9' plow on it.

 

[AEdelheit]

I understand it's not ideal to turn the wheel stopped but in reality sometimes you have to, especially since you only have 285's, there's no reason the truck shouldn't turn them. Granted I have a 3rd gen with the new mopar box but I can turn 37's stopped on dry pavement, there's is a little more resistance in the wheel but not alot more then when moving

 

[JR]

I have had 3 different types of atf plus 4 in it. That is what dodge specs. But that is not a bad idea to try the high end stuff, I have been using synthic but not the real good stuff. I have had someone turn the wheel while I watch, but see nothing. MLee is right about turning the wheel without moving, but it is tuff to move around tight places with it the way it is. It is real tuff with the 9' plow on it.

FYI ATF+4 is spec'd for 03 and up. According to the FSM Chrysler approved power steering fluid is reccommended for 02 and older trucks. I know on alot of vehicles it does not matter and ATF is a commonly used alternative to PS fluid. But our trucks use the fluid for more than just a power steering pump and I have never seen a comparison between the two fluids to know if there are any compatability issues with the seals in our system. I have always stuck with PS fluid when flushing or topping off.

 

[Mike B.]

I recently purchased a second 99 that came with 285's and I'm experiencing the exact same problem. It's almost impossible to turn the wheel without the truck at least moving a little, something as simple as pulling out of a parking space has become a PIA. Since I've always run either 245's or 265's on the other truck I just assumed I'd be stuck with this problem until the 285's were replaced. I'm actually relieved to hear that there's something wrong & the truck shouldn't have any problem turning 285's.

I'll start with a fluid flush with PS fluid since I have no idea what the previous owner had been using..

 

[JR]

A flush would be a good place to start. Disconnect the lines to the cooler and drain the cooler as best as you can. I also stuck the return line into a bucket and had someone start the truck and let it pump the old fluid out. I tried to keep up by adding new fluid but it didnt work out very well and the fluid stream broke so I had my helper shut the truck off right away. Don't want to cavitate the pump. I kept filling the resevoir and pumping it into a bucket until the stream was good and clean. Then I topped it off buttoned everything back up and started the truck and worked the wheel back and forth lock to lock to circulate the fluid. Then I flushed it one more time. When your doing this you also have to plug the return coming off the pump IIRC. I used a short piece of hose with a bolt and a clamp. I believe I used 2 and a half to 3 quarts by the time it was all said and done. There is a few good write ups I've seen so if you do a search you should be able to come up with something pretty easily.
One more thing you could look into is the screen on the inlet line of the pump. It can get plugged up over time if the fluid hasn't been changed accordingly and hinder the flow rates.

 

[klaybus]

Got the same problem trying to turn 265s! Replaced the pump & the steering box & shaft with the Borgeson gear. IDK, but I would think someone has a solution.
Come to think of it though, the only things I didn't replace we're the lines. Maybe?

 

[klaybus]

Anyone.....