2006 ram 3500 with ATS 3000/5000

[gswall2018]

Anyone installed this kit? Is it worth the money and aggravation to install? Best programming and injectors to use with this set up. I’m looking to improve towing and daily driving experience. My current setup is stock engine, stock turbo, edge programmer, banks monster ram intake, intercooler, and cold air . Also have dual disc clutch. Looking for 500-550.hp max. Not a race or sled puller.

Thanks

 

[bigceltic]

I am looking forward to any responses. I have been toying with the idea of compounds (add a turbo kit : DPS S475 over stock) but am worried about boost pressure and needing head studs - or whether we can run twins safely without the studs.

 

[gswall2018]

I am looking forward to any responses. I have been toying with the idea of compounds (add a turbo kit : DPS S475 over stock) but am worried about boost pressure and needing head studs - or whether we can run twins safely without the studs.

I’m now going with a single upgrade turbo. Probably a borg Warner s 463 if I can reuse my current exhaust brake. Just installed the new fleece power flow lift pump. Slowly getting there.

 

[cerberusiam]

With a small set of compounds no need for head studs. You will need valve springs before studs, but, if you aren't going to exceed 3500 rpms or 50 psi of boost than studs and springs not needed.

 

[bigceltic]

With a small set of compounds no need for head studs. You will need valve springs before studs, but, if you aren't going to exceed 3500 rpms or 50 psi of boost than studs and springs not needed.

Cerb,

So let me ask a follow on question that has been puzzling me regarding twin turbos (add a turbo) and boost pressure. The DPS kit I referenced above is an S475 over stock. DPS says I can adjust the wastegate as necessary - to stock PSI (32? 40psi?) - "Our compounds come with a spring gate that will allows you to manually adjust your boost pressure" - but if I do that (at least until I can afford headstuds) will this mean I am not getting the benefits of a second turbo (ie., increase in air, reduced EGT)? The DPS site has a description of how the twins work (https://www.dieselpowersource.com/twin-turbos-vs-single-turbos-2) and in the section on “Why is air pressure a factor for my turbo?” it says that: “If you see boost pressure on your truck at 35 psi, this is actually the gauge pressure (psig). The zero on the gauge is actually 14.7 psi (at sea level), so the actual pressure is what you read on your gauge (35) + 14.7 which equals 49.7 psi.” I read that as the pressure displayed on the gauge is actually higher than what it reads (reads 35, *is* 49.7). Of course since I tow pretty much well above sea level (I think the lowest I have been is 2000 ft, and most of the time I am above 6000ft) my actual will be closer to the psig (gauge pressure), right?

The DPS post then goes on to say:
Turbos multiply atmospheric pressure. Therefore if the small turbo as a single can take air at 14.7 psi, and produce 40 psi boost, it is multiplying the air by 3.72 times (14.7 psi x 3.72 = 54.7 psia, minus the 14.7 atmospheric gives 40 psig (gauge pressure)). The large turbo can do a similar job. Therefore let's say that the large turbo multiplies by 2.2 times, it takes 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure) and makes 17.6 psig (actual pressure 32.3 minus 14.7 atmospheric, not taking into account adiabatic efficiencies), now the small turbo will see 32.3 psia at it's air inlet (instead of the 14.7 psia, that it would normally see as a single turbo), but the secondary/small turbo thinks it's only seeing atmospheric pressure. Then when the secondary turbo multiplies the 32.3 psia by 2.4 times you get about 65 psi. A lot of cool air to help in combustion and carry heat out of the cylinders.

If I am reading the example above using the double turbos, the indicated (gauge) pressure will read significantly lower than the actual psi, right?

Bottom line, is it really possible to add a turbo such as the DPS kit without quickly exceeding safe pressure (and thus needing head studs) - or does setting the wastegate to, say, 40psi, going to keep me safe" But then again, if not running higher than stock pressure, am I getting any real benefit (lower EGTs) of the twins?

I know I am missing some key component of the issue and hope you can help put it in simpler terms!

Thanks in advance,
George

 

[cerberusiam]

35 lbs of boost is 35 lbs of boost, not 49.7. 49.7 is absolute pressure not boost.

Sure, you can conceivably get 65 psi of boost from a set of compounds if you run the rpms and fueling to the max. If you set a WG to dump at 40 psi you won't get 65 psi, that is the WG's job, to limit that. A small set of compounds is not effective at 65 psi, more like 40-45 psi depending on the small turbo. If you want them for towing and better air then that is just what a small sey of compounds does. The better air density will geenrate more power at the same throttle opening so it tends to limit the boost ules you have your foot flat on the floor.

 

[TWhiteside]

I have an 06 with the DPS Stocker/S475 kit and tow a heavy trailer. I like the setup because it allowed me to keep my Jacobs Exhaust Brake. It definitely lowers the EGTs!! As stated, without headstuds, you will want to make sure the wastegate is adjusted to open at no more than 45psi boost (trying to be safe). They say you an go higher, but I don't want to risk the head gasket. And then there is the 48RE transmission . My 48RE has a Goerend Triple Disk Torque Converter and a Transgo shift kit, Second Gear Band strut upgrade. I have my Smarty S-06 on level 5, TQ mgmt. Stock.

Going out through Western MD and West Viriginia (foot hills compared to the Rockies, but still 6% grades) I am cruising along up a grade at 60MPH in Drive, EGTs around 950 before Turbos, 45 PSI Boost, towing our Fuzion Toyhauler! Life seems great. (Guess where this is going). Next thing I know, I hear a noise - RPMs start to climb, truck starts to slow. Wife says, "Everything okay?", My response,"Um, No". I put the transmission into Second and no difference... Make it to the shoulder of I-79 south. Seems like I broke the flex plate or input shaft and tookout the pump.

EXPENSIVE Lesson: Something is still the weak point. I thought the trans had enough upgrades but that wasn't the case. In fact, I recently learned that with a stock Flexplate and input shaft the Triple Disk TQ Converter locking can actually cause the breakage of the weaker parts. So... Waiting for a new built Transmission to be installed.

 

[bigceltic]

Thanks, and I am sorry about your trans! Having had a major issue while towing my trailer (injectors) I know how stressful it can be. I am planning a Goerend build in the near future, including flex plate, but maybe I will do that first! How long were you running the twin kit before the issue? I, too, am looking at the DPS kit because it allows me to keep my Jacobs brake.

 

[cerberusiam]

Stuff happens, but, with a triple disk you want to use a better flex plate and definitely upgrade the input shaft. They will run without them but it is walking a thin line of reliability.

 

[TWhiteside]

I was running the setup with compound turbos for just over a year. I agree 100% with cerberusiam, hindsight being 20/20 that I was walking a thin line of reliability. When I "upgraded" the transmission 10 years ago with the triple disk, shift kit, etc. I don't recall much talk about the flex plate and input shafts breaking when only towing? Fast-forward 10 years and it's now a know fact...